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Topic: Ballade op. 23 in G minor (Read 3325 times)

sauergrandson

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Ballade op. 23 in G minor

on: May 06, 2006, 04:00:26 PM

I want to play Chopin, Ballade op. 23 in G minor. Which piece could help me to prepare?

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Kassaa

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Re: Ballade op. 23 in G minor

Reply #1 on: May 06, 2006, 04:19:52 PM

Rachmaninoff's fourth piano concerto, Mendelssohn concerto, Saint-Saëns No. 2, Chopin polonaise fantasie and concerto's no. 1 and 2, bach goldberg variations.

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avetma

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Re: Ballade op. 23 in G minor

Reply #2 on: May 06, 2006, 05:54:26 PM

What is yours current repertoire? We cannot say to you when is right time to try ballade; you should know it. But, surely, all these concertos are not required.

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kghayesh

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Re: Ballade op. 23 in G minor

Reply #3 on: May 06, 2006, 05:59:56 PM

Quote

Rachmaninoff's fourth piano concerto, Mendelssohn concerto, Saint-Saëns No. 2, Chopin polonaise fantasie and concerto's no. 1 and 2, bach goldberg variations.

But i think the third concerto prepares you better.

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Kassaa

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Re: Ballade op. 23 in G minor

Reply #4 on: May 06, 2006, 06:03:18 PM

Quote from: kghayesh on May 06, 2006, 05:59:56 PM

But i think the third concerto prepares you better.

That one isn't in G!

Neither are the Chopin thingies, but they are essential for capturing Chopin's language necessary for the first ballade.

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sauergrandson

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Re: Ballade op. 23 in G minor

Reply #5 on: May 06, 2006, 07:24:55 PM

Quote from: avetma on May 06, 2006, 05:54:26 PM

What is yours current repertoire? We cannot say to you when is right time to try ballade; you should know it. But, surely, all these concertos are not required.

Uhm. My repertoire basically is:

Bach: all 2 and 3 parts inventions, some pieces from french suites, partita 1. Some PF WTC I and II. Concerto in G minor
Mozart: Rondò in D, Sonatas 545, 331, 283. Concert 19 F major
Beethoven: Paisiello variations, Sonatas op. 49 1/2 op. 13 op. 6/3
Mendelssohn: Some Songs without Words, Rondó Capriccioso, Scherzo in E minor
Scarlatti: some sonatas
Chopin: Preludes 3, 4, 6, 7, 15, 20, 21, 22
Mazurkas 22-25
Waltzes: 3, 10, posthomous in A minor

Rachmaninov: Preludes 3/2, 23/5, 3 nocturnes
Schumann: Kinderszenen, Waldszenen, Papillons.
Grieg: some lyric pieces, Holberg Suite (complete)

I don't know if it's enough, or if I am intermediate or early advanced.

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avetma

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Re: Ballade op. 23 in G minor

Reply #6 on: May 06, 2006, 07:46:48 PM

Quote from: sauergrandson on May 06, 2006, 07:24:55 PM

Uhm. My repertoire basically is:

Bach: all 2 and 3 parts inventions, some pieces from french suites, partita 1. Some PF WTC I and II. Concerto in G minor
Mozart: Rondò in D, Sonatas 545, 331, 283. Concert 19 F major
Beethoven: Paisiello variations, Sonatas op. 49 1/2 op. 13 op. 6/3
Mendelssohn: Some Songs without Words, Rondó Capriccioso, Scherzo in E minor
Scarlatti: some sonatas
Chopin: Preludes 3, 4, 6, 7, 15, 20, 21, 22
Mazurkas 22-25
Waltzes: 3, 10, posthomous in A minor

Rachmaninov: Preludes 3/2, 23/5, 3 nocturnes
Schumann: Kinderszenen, Waldszenen, Papillons.
Grieg: some lyric pieces, Holberg Suite (complete)

I don't know if it's enough, or if I am intermediate or early advanced.

Nice repertoire there, but if I were you, I would try to do some chopin polonaises or etudes. After that take a shot to ballade

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sauergrandson

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Re: Ballade op. 23 in G minor

Reply #7 on: May 06, 2006, 08:17:06 PM

Quote from: avetma on May 06, 2006, 07:46:48 PM

Nice repertoire there, but if I were you, I would try to do some chopin polonaises or etudes. After that take a shot to ballade

Thank you, very much.

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donjuan

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Re: Ballade op. 23 in G minor

Reply #8 on: May 07, 2006, 06:00:12 AM

Quote from: Kassaa on May 06, 2006, 04:19:52 PM

Rachmaninoff's fourth piano concerto, Mendelssohn concerto, Saint-Saëns No. 2, Chopin polonaise fantasie and concerto's no. 1 and 2, bach goldberg variations.

hahaha seriously crazy suggestions there

sauergrandson, your repertoire is impressive. what part of this ballade makes you feel like you need to do something first to prepare for it?

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sauergrandson

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Re: Ballade op. 23 in G minor

Reply #9 on: May 07, 2006, 09:38:56 PM

Quote from: donjuan on May 07, 2006, 06:00:12 AM

hahaha seriously crazy suggestions there

sauergrandson, your repertoire is impressive. what part of this ballade makes you feel like you need to do something first to prepare for it?

The fastest ones.

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elevateme

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Re: Ballade op. 23 in G minor

Reply #10 on: May 07, 2006, 09:44:04 PM

whaaaaaaaaaaat are you on about. ballade 1 go straight into it. as you progress through it, each section will prepare you for the next.

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sauergrandson

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Re: Ballade op. 23 in G minor

Reply #11 on: May 07, 2006, 09:51:54 PM

Quote from: elevateme on May 07, 2006, 09:44:04 PM

whaaaaaaaaaaat are you on about. ballade 1 go straight into it. as you progress through it, each section will prepare you for the next.

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da jake

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Re: Ballade op. 23 in G minor

Reply #12 on: May 07, 2006, 09:55:38 PM

Quote from: Kassaa on May 06, 2006, 04:19:52 PM

Rachmaninoff's fourth piano concerto, Mendelssohn concerto, Saint-Saëns No. 2, Chopin polonaise fantasie and concerto's no. 1 and 2, bach goldberg variations.

Goldberg Variations are much harder than the Ballade, silly.

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elevateme

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Re: Ballade op. 23 in G minor

Reply #13 on: May 07, 2006, 10:00:01 PM

well na you dont say

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Motrax

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Re: Ballade op. 23 in G minor

Reply #14 on: May 08, 2006, 12:18:50 AM

If you don't feel comfortable tackling the ballade immediately, playing a few etudes would probably help out.

I havne't played the first ballade, but you should look through the etudes if you have them and pick ones that look similar to passages that you're worried about not being able to handle. Op. 10 No. 10 would be good for example.

Otherwise, learn the ballade by starting with the toughest sections first. Just practice it enough and you'll probably have it.

Good luck!

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"I always make sure that the lid over the keyboard is open before I start to play." -- Artur Schnabel, after being asked for the secret of piano playing.

turner

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Re: Ballade op. 23 in G minor

Reply #15 on: May 09, 2006, 03:51:56 PM

Etude Op. 10 No. 10 is a good choice in the sense that the same technique is used in the coda of the G Minor Ballade. I would only caution that this Etude is very challenging, and it might take a long time to truly master it.

It doesn't do any harm to just plunge in and learn the piece, and take each section and work on it until it is as perfect as you can make it. I would only caution that if certain parts are so beyond reach, that it might take a long time to conquer the difficulties and by that time, you might have lost the interst and the drive to complete the whole piece. In other words, you have to be SUPER-motivated.

The 3rd Ballade is generally understood as the "easiest" of the 4 Ballades by Chopin, in fact, that was the first one I learned as a teenager--I auditioned with that piece for music school and got accepted. Looking back, however, I find that the 3rd Ballade is not as easy as everyone seems to think. Then I learned the 2nd and then the 1st. By the time I began learning the 1st Ballade, it seemed manageable. (The same broken chord technique used in Etude Op. 10 No. 10 is also found in the 2nd and 3rd Ballades.)

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el nino

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Re: Ballade op. 23 in G minor

Reply #16 on: May 09, 2006, 10:31:27 PM

technicaly,try to play the last scale in 10's,just before the ending.if you manage that,the rest of ballade is a piece of cake

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jason2711

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Re: Ballade op. 23 in G minor

Reply #17 on: May 13, 2006, 08:54:25 PM

I launched into it with a repertoire less than what you have. I first performed it a few months after starting it. Recently, I performed it, 13 months after starting work on the piece. I also performed it at various times between in a masterclass, a competition and a recital. The tranformation (though it is still flawed), musically and technically, between these performances has for me been really worthwhile.

I say, launch into it, but while learning other pieces at the same time. The piece will grow on you and you will mature with it. I think the ballade is often described by some pianists as one that takes a lifetime to learn.

Good luck, try not to get bogged down too much with playing it virtuosically (I was accused of this at the masterclass), and instead seek the beauty of the piece. The technically difficult pieces are rough, and need a lot of practice, but remember that chopin had a musical purpose for them (other than, hey, look at me, I'm a virtuoso!)

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gruffalo

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Re: Ballade op. 23 in G minor

Reply #18 on: May 13, 2006, 11:32:32 PM

to be honest, i think your repetoire is good enough to get straight into it.

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maxy

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Re: Ballade op. 23 in G minor

Reply #19 on: May 14, 2006, 08:01:57 PM

Quote from: gruffalo on May 13, 2006, 11:32:32 PM

to be honest, i think your repetoire is good enough to get straight into it.

agreed!

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