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Topic: Ugggr. Mozart. Sonata in F and hot pirozhki!  (Read 3642 times)

Offline ingagroznaya

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Ugggr. Mozart. Sonata in F and hot pirozhki!
on: May 17, 2006, 08:30:34 AM
Mozart. Sonata in F. How do you teach it, when you don't feel as you can play it well your self? I don't feel it. I fake it. What words to use? I can't ignore the guy, but I CAN NOT relate. Perhaps I'm not mature enough or good enough - I feel totally naked, when I play. Naked and so ridiculous. And Phony!  Each of my finger weights a ton! I feel like a total idiot when I get to that trill in the right hand. Only four measures after *somewhat* saves me. I can not turn the page. I can't go on after. My students are impressed, but my face cringes -- it's feels so unpleasant and humiliating. And humbling... Help!
It's our recital piece. I was insane to take it. The student is extremely musical and very expressive. I doubt Mozart will ever be her "forte". This is our first Mozart piece together because I would refuse / "never came across him" in the past.

Please, do not add to my agony as a teacher. I can afford to critique my self enough. My student is 13 years old girl. What words would You use?
What English words would you use to explain how to play him? Both me and my student are Russian, but we can hardly speak it to communicate well. We use English. Sincerely. Help. Please. Anything your teacher told you. Mozart is not existent in Russian education system, I think. We avoid saying much about him.  Words are huge. Just help. It's a disaster!  We are "falling down stairs, one step at a time". That's how Mozart should be played? Anything you have to say on a subject would be greatly appreciated and useful at this stage.
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Offline pianistimo

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Re: Ugggr. Mozart. Sonata in F and hot pirozhki!
Reply #1 on: May 17, 2006, 10:03:32 AM
are you for real - or is this some kind of bait?  *goes to get mozart sonata book.

btw, did you ever tell us what happened to the other guy with the 'middle section' problem? 

ok.  do you mean K 332?  i'll give you all my notes.  i worked this with a french teacher who spoke english - and now you can translate it into russian as i assume you do not speak russian during the lesson but probably write it on the page.

he put, for the first movement, a final tempo of 144= quarter note.  tempi is very important to this first movement as it IS allegro but you don't want it so fast that you cannot phrase it.  my little notes say "the charm of this sonata beginning lies int he fact that it is not like a beginning, but like a second theme. lyrical and magical."  this is very important to the little two note phrases at the very beginning.  my teacher useda red pencil and marked again the two note phrases WITHIN and larger phrase.  many students make the mistake of thinking in small chunks.  but, what you want the studnet to understand is that they can make a larger phrase out of these smaller 'pieces.'  the first (to the quarter rest) is the 'question' and the second the 'answer.'  you have to teach the student how to 'talk to her/himself.' 

for the little trill i would use (3232) at measure 8.  always from the upper note as you already well know.  and ending at m 11 forte (not double forte as students tend to do).  even forte is often too loud.  see if you can get your student to play for you what they think is forte and tell them it's 'down one notch.'  if they can master this concept - they can play mozart well.  it's not beethoven.

now, at measure 12 you have the first technical difficulty - the thirds.  my teacher gave me a whole set of five finger exercises to go up and down the keyboard with in thirds.  am sure you have your own.  make sure the student practices these to supplement so when he/she comes to this point - there's no effort involved.  show the student not to be fearful of this spot and how easy it is.  when you play it - make it look like it's nothing (which it really isn't) but make sure all thenotes sound.  bringing out the top note of the third.  (the fingering for the rh is changed in my book to 421 (same note finger switch to:)2 and then 3 2 (1 2 1 for the F's) then 42 for the G/E.

the left hand thirds would be fingered:  31 42 35 (same notes) 13 12 and then 14 for 5th.  25 for the F/A.  i have 14 for the lh G/C repeated.  then 25 to 13 bring hand up and then play 13 to 24  to 35 13 12 14 at measure 17.  you end on 25 again (F/A)

i have much more fingering - which is really crucial to playing this well.  you have to teach the student to be comfortable sometimes letting go of a two note phrase - picking up their hand (relaxed) and placing it again somewhere else. 

on the next page at measure 53 make sure the appogiatura of three notes is started ON the beat.  draw a red marker line to connect it with the bass note F  (from the rh G).  little notes like this with a fine red marker are heeded by students, whereas pencil doesn't show up much.  my teacher used to put little V's on whichever rests i wasn't observing, too.

Offline pianistimo

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Re: Ugggr. Mozart. Sonata in F and hot pirozhki!
Reply #2 on: May 17, 2006, 10:11:30 AM
do you like pirozhki?  or is it only mozart?  ok.  i'll make you some pirozhki orm1469will.  of course, if you live in russia already  - what's the point?  maybe you're saying that you want to learn to love mozart like you already do love pirozhki.  yoiu want to make it 'hot.'

ok.  here's some more tips for making mozart 'hot.'  don't rush at measure 49 when your student gets to the triplets.  whenever there are triplets ina piece - students tend to start rushing.  then it gets mushy and the piece gets noticeably faster and you can't slow it down.  my teacher used to use a pencil on the lid of the keyboard while i was playing and beat the steady beat.  it helped - even though it sound naziish.  teachers can be drill sargents and get away with it - as long as it's just a few bars.  i have a phrasing mark in the left hand at measure 55 all the way almost to the 'p' marking.  then with the 'p' dynamic i have staccatos.  very important with the rh hand there to observe the rest.  it's a 'point of articulation' as another teacher put it.  you are switching from 'forte' to 'piano' and need to hear two different 'sounds.'

the thirds at measure 67 i have the fingering for.

do you like mozart yet?  it takes time.  we'll make it hot.  if you want my fingering for the thirds, just ask.  i'll give you any more info you want anytime.  you kind of have to take this piece bar by bar at first and note all the particulars.  then, when the student plays - he/she has your 'notes' in red marker of the important places (and the fingering in pencil).  i've learned that my slopping writing is unreadable - but this teacher's writing is impeccable.  make sure and take the music from the student and write down notes when you have lots of time.  then it will be neat and readable.  (that's me talking).  i like to use cursive - this teacher only prints and also uses mathmatical number writing (squared) so it is impossible to not be able to read the numbers well.

Offline pianistimo

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Re: Ugggr. Mozart. Sonata in F and hot pirozhki!
Reply #3 on: May 17, 2006, 10:19:20 AM
another thing that comes to mind - is that students often don't hold lh notes (especially) to the full beat.  or, they hold it beyond the beat.  catch this and write with that fine red marker a line fromt he quarter note or whatever type of note - a line all the way to the rest.  this ensures that the student knows to hold it out all the way and not shorten or elongate it.  it's like marching in step.  you don't have missteps in mozart or you're making new harmonies accidentally.  m 177 in particular.

and, when BOTH hands have a rest. make sure the student observes the hands coming up together - nto one hand and then the other.  (measure 176) you can CIRCLe the rests to indicate this.  tell the student not to rush the ending of the first movement when they come to the triplets int he RH. 

it's a 'charming' piece and played, as mentioned before, as a sort of mental 'continuation' like they'd already played a first movement and were setting into a second theme of sorts.  there's a steadiness to it and no room for not being warmed up because the melody starts instantly.

it now occurs to me that you may be talking about K 533.  in which case ignore the entire post.  let me know which one it is you are looking at.  i haven't officially 'worked' the 533.

Offline ingagroznaya

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Re: Ugggr. Mozart. Sonata in F and hot pirozhki!
Reply #4 on: May 18, 2006, 04:53:14 AM
Thank you, pianistimo. It's K. 332. We have covered rests and phrasing and of course fingering a month ago. It just sounds tacky ( in "bodily function" sort of way ). I find your simple suggestion to keep it "down a notch" ( in general ) priceless. Even soft parts was too loud.

Anyone else has something wise to say?

Offline ingagroznaya

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Re: Ugggr. Mozart. Sonata in F and hot pirozhki!
Reply #5 on: May 18, 2006, 10:50:40 AM

btw, did you ever tell us what happened to the other guy with the 'middle section' problem? 


He got a divorce after 30 years together. We flew to Moscow, got married on The Red Square right next to Lenin's mausoleum. He now takes lessons from another piano teacher over the internet. From what I understand she is located somewhere in India. I've got him all set up here with digital recognition technology, speakers, connection to the net, the wiring, so they can play duets. Just not in a room all alone, sharing a chair.
Dynamics can be a pretty tricky thing, ya know. ::)

Offline pianistimo

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Re: Ugggr. Mozart. Sonata in F and hot pirozhki!
Reply #6 on: May 18, 2006, 01:08:30 PM
ingagroznya,  you are more impulsive than me.  i married my husband within two weeks of our declaring our love for one another (that was after an intial week of getting to know each other).  we just 'hit it off' - as you must have. 

what euphoria and joy you must feel to have him on the keyboard and in bed now too. 
why worry about how to make mozart 'hot' anymore. you have a good roll in bed. you go play mozart.  it comes out hot.  tell me more about pirozghi over there.  is it a word you use to refer to something else (you know, going in the oven).  the internet is a sure way to understand others cultures - or, completely be befuddled. 

murray perahia has a good sense of mozart.  wonder if he has made any recordings of this particular sonata.  i'd take a listen, if i were you - and then it will be 'hot.'  maybe the 'coloring' of the sounds is what makes it hot and not necessarily the 'content' of the K 332?  it does seem one of his more 'immature' pieces.  you can imagine a four year old playing with blocks int he first movement - and yet, at the same time - a woman doing origami or knitting.  hard to imagine a model walking down the street to this particular piece, but i could see an elderly person shuffling holding on to the wall.

ps why did you marry next to lenin's mausoleum?  that doesn't seem that romantic unless you are wearing flat shoes and one of those caps. 
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