re: major's and minor key signatures

[forevere2]

Okay so I know how to determine the major key signatures, and minor key signatures...

However I have to either use the circle of fifths to determine minor signatures, or use the rule that a minor is a minor 3rd below the major keynote.

Is this the only way to determine the minor key signatures, by first finding the major and converting it to minor?

[abell88]

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,17341.0.html

Here is a recent discussion on the topic.  If you like mathematical formulae, you might enjoy tac-tic's method.

I have 11 young students, aged 9-10, all of whom can write the circle of 5ths up to 4 sharps and 4 flats in under 2 minutes -- most in under 1 minute. Some of them can complete the whole circle of 5ths. It's really not that hard to memorize it.

[keyofc]

Try this:
Write the order of flats:
B E A D G C F

See if it works for you.
For Sharps go to 4 to the Right, For Flats, go 3 to the Left

So if we are at F maj, and want to determine it's relative minor
go four to the right and you have d
but if you want F# major's relative minor, go to F# and go 3 to the left
Bb, go to four,eadg G (just don't think of this one as a flat)
Eb, go four to riight, adgc, C minor
Ab go to Ab count from there 4 , DGCF, F minor
Db, go four to right - gcfb, and then you have bb, relative minor
Gb go four to right , CFBE, EB minor
Cb go four to right, FBEA, (you just make it a flata0 Ab

You just have to have your major key signatures memorized in order to do this.
I saw someone do this another way with the modes, but can't remember how,
If anyone knows, please let me know.
I hope this helps

[mike_lang]

I think that the best way is to know the minor scale/key comes from the sixth degree of the major scale.  However, I tell students that while it is important to understand whence the scale is derived, but that the most effective way to recognize the key signatures is simply to memorize.

[goml53]

If you want to memorize the key signatures, there is a relatively inexpensive piece of flashcard software called AnkiApp, which comes with flashcards for learning key signatures (details at https://blog.ankiapp.com/post/85792321609/learn-music-with-ankiapp).

I'm one of the programmers for the app, and a former piano student trying to regain lost musical knowledge with the help of modern technology

[japzz]

if you do a little effort to learn the order of sharps and flats to the point when it's encrusted  in your brain - si mi la re sol do fa and fa do sol re la mi si,after a while it will become some kind of mantra - like when you learned the tables of multiplication when you were young,you'll never have trouble anymore in determining the tonality of a piece by looking at the key signs or vice versa. No app or other trick can beat that.It takes a little effort which is nothing compared to the efforts you make for mastering chopin or rachmaninov and its really worthwhile