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Topic: Fantasie Impromptu technique questions  (Read 13024 times)

Offline barnelby

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Fantasie Impromptu technique questions
on: May 20, 2006, 11:10:22 PM
Hello everyone! I am new to the forum...I have gotten a second wind for classical music after 10 years of lessons...I just finished high school, so now I actually HAVE TIME to play.  :D I feel reluctant making my first post about Fantasie Impromptu...it seems to be the kind of thing that everyone "loves to hate" to talk about...especially when a younger person talks about it  :-\. I have both ambition and humility along with great respect for the piece...so I will have the most patience possible while learning it.  I have huge hands...they have been great for Rachmaninoff and Debussy...but with Fantasie I find my fingers tripping a lot.   

Here is one fingering suggestion for the first right hand phrase in the song:



On my sheet music, the fingering is 2 3 2 1 2 3 5 3 2 3 2 1 2 3 5

This is WAY easier when playing it hands together (my fingers don't trip all over each other), but it loses clarity. Anyone else with big hands have any suggestions? Also, it is very strange to me that the suggested fingering for the bass in this puts the 4th finger on the G#...why not just leave the 3rd finger there? I have always heard that there are certain "must knows" about this song that really help, so I am constantly paranoid about doing something the wrong way that will hinder my learning. Are there any good websites...books even...on how to get this piece down?

                                                        Thanks a lot.

Offline daniloperusina

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Re: Fantasie Impromptu technique questions
Reply #1 on: May 21, 2006, 01:56:00 AM
On my sheet music, the fingering is 2 3 2 1 2 3 5 3 2 3 2 1 2 3 5


Hi! I'm using that fingering, and I find it to be very comfortable. I've never seen the other one before, I'll try it and see what it feels like. It does look a bit too intricate, but maybe it has a point. It makes me very curious what fingering that edition has for the long descending figure that follows? Can you post that too?

I also agree with you about the 4th finger on G#, I use the 3rd there too.  My guess is that the editor finds it more comfortable to finger E-G#-C#-E with 5-4-2-1 per se, but it does confuse the hand to change finger on the same note so soon, especially when it's the same chord.

I think this is a perfect piece for a young, fast-fingered pianist!

How big are your hands? I stretch a tenth quite comfortably.

I would advice you to practice this piece with very relaxed hands, and make sure you don't stress your 5th fingers too much!

Offline mikey6

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Re: Fantasie Impromptu technique questions
Reply #2 on: May 21, 2006, 02:22:10 AM
not sure, but if the problem is your hands trip over eachother coz they're cramped into a shamm area (ie' how the notes are spaces in that 1st bar), you could try Brahms excercise no.7
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Offline lostinidlewonder

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Re: Fantasie Impromptu technique questions
Reply #3 on: May 21, 2006, 02:52:33 AM
I think the posted fingering is good as it uses economical fingering, over using the 232 can set us up for some tension.

for example I feel this would naturally produce tenision when played fast which would have to be worked against:
[232] 1235 3[232] 1235  as barnebly sheet music had

In the printed post:
132 1245 3132 1245 I think goes one step too far with finger economy, the positional shifts of the hand cause too much of a strong technique to control for most people.

in 132 1... the thumb has moved from a black note to a white and the 5th finger will maintain a white position (during 1245). This same idea is presented with 3132 1... The thumb plays a black position and moves to a white, but the 5th this time must maintin a black position when the last 1245 is done. In short, this is a lot of moving about and would require strong technique to play totally relaxed.

I have suggested to students a combination of the two fingerings

132 1245 3232 1235

Nothing is over used here. Practicing it as two groups group1:123 1245   group2: 3232 1235.

The brief useage of the 232 in the 3232 group will not naturally cause too much tension but if it is immediately followed by another one it can cause tension as in the [232] 1235 3[232] 1235 choice.
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Offline kaiwin

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Re: Fantasie Impromptu technique questions
Reply #4 on: May 21, 2006, 04:01:00 PM
I have a 10th and I use
132 1245 3132 12[3]5

I suggest, try to use the fingering that you feel comfortable using and play it sloowwww at first, then speed up.
:-D

Hope this helps!

Offline barnelby

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Re: Fantasie Impromptu technique questions
Reply #5 on: May 21, 2006, 04:59:29 PM
Hey everyone thanks a lot for the great info! I should have posted this website along with my post, this is where I got that little section:

https://www.skytopia.com/project/articles/chopin.html

I can stretch a tenth very comfortably as well, Daniloperusina...glad to hear that someone else with big hands found their way through the piece  :P.I will just experiment with different things as far as the mentioned fingering goes. Also, the fontana edition of Fantasie Impromptu was included in the music I bought. I noticed that the bass was much easier which was a HUGE relief (no jump to G# in the bass during the main phrase)...also, I've been checking out a lot of videos on youtube.com and it appears that the fontana edition is what people are playing...My untrained eyes certainly wont pick up many other differences in the music, so are most of the differences just in the arpeggios? Or is there any part of the song that is different in the fontana edition? Thanks!

Offline kaiwin

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Re: Fantasie Impromptu technique questions
Reply #6 on: May 22, 2006, 04:24:47 AM
Quote
https://www.skytopia.com/project/articles/chopin.html
I'm glad that you found this helpful, but I personally hate this website, I saw this website a LLOOOONG TIME AGO and its more like a blog of a pianist with false technique "attempting" to play this piece. Don't rely on this website too much. Ask your teacher about the real chopin technique used in this piece. Take a look at an adjudicator's comment
Quote
Chopin
You have a lot of technique to be able to play this is the way you did.
In the long run, there needs to be more poetic idea in your playing + variation of colour/character dynamics.

Your prog. + notes are spectacular!
This piece is supposed to be played like its improvised and poetic (because its chopin). For the dynamics it needs a lot of contrast, this adds the emotional details.
I assumed that he got the rhythm right but not the style. That is why I suggest to not follow all of his ideas. He also refers to this "https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,4177.0.html"
Jumping from Fur Elise to Fantaisie-Impromptu
If this is your case, DON'T PLAY THIS PIECE YET BECAUSE YOU won't have enough technique.
BUILD UP YOUR TECHNIQUE. Thats the key part to mastering htis piece. Dont' just attempt to learn this and have a bad performance of it. Master the basics first then go on to this piece. Ask your teacher to help you on your technique like playing Chopin's waltzes, nocturnes, etc.
Trust me
Quote
https://www.skytopia.com/project/articles/chopin.html
Should not be fully relied on. I'm learning this piece right now and the technique required is WAY different. You can PM me if you need any help with this piece.
Personally I think a 10th is already small  ;D . I play this piece fine and I have a tenth. Again PM me if you want. Or you can PM me your e-mail address and we could discuss it there.

Hope this helps!

Question, How big is your hand?
Like (Tenth, Eleventh, Etc.) Gives me a better idea on how big your hand is.
 

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