Rachmaninov 23-5 Analysis

[steve jones]

Could anyone tell me the scale that Rachmaninov uses during the middle section of this prelude?

I recognise the sound, but cant put my finger on it. Sounds modal, but again, cant put my finger on which one.

The notes I have are:

D, E, F#, G, A, Bb, C

I was thinking that it might be like an Aeolian mode played over the D accompaniment, hence the F# to reinforce this major tonality. But not sure to be honest.

SJ

[bearzinthehood]

Hahaha, ownt. 

[franz_]

In the middle part, I believe it is D (harmonic? melodic?)  D E F# G A Bb C D
I think.

[Kassaa]

If it's an E, it's melodic. With an Eb it would be harmonic.

[bearzinthehood]

If it's an E, it's melodic. With an Eb it would be harmonic.

durrr *slaps forehead*

[steve jones]

Ah, that pesky sucker the melodic minor!

Kassaa, you get the prize, an all expenses paid trip to McDonald's including a free happymeal 

SJ

[cjp_piano]

Uh . . . D E F#?   It can't be harmonic OR melodic minor, because D E F# G A is MAJOR!


It's actually more like G melodic minor, is that what you meant?

G A Bb C D E F# G

I think it's really still in G minor, just emphasis on the dominant with all the D's and D chords.

Give me the happymeal   

[steve jones]

Yeah, thats why Im thinking modal. It seems to be something along those lines.

SJ

PS. Would you like the toy for a girl or a boy? 

[pianogeek_cz]

Guess what, it!s a mix - one of Rachmaninov's favorite harmonic tricks (3rd concerto cadenza...) - the first half is major, the other is minor...

It actually sounds really great, doesn't it? 

[alejo_90]

Guess what, it!s a mix - one of Rachmaninov's favorite harmonic tricks (3rd concerto cadenza...) - the first half is major, the other is minor...

It actually sounds really great, doesn't it? 

Cool ! I didn't know that. It sounds amazing.

Cheers
Alex

[steve jones]

Would that be along the lines of using borrowed chords? I guess so. Yeah, I hear him using borrowed chords in his 3rd concerto, to great effect I might add!

SJ

[cjp_piano]

Guess what, it!s a mix - one of Rachmaninov's favorite harmonic tricks (3rd concerto cadenza...) - the first half is major, the other is minor...

It actually sounds really great, doesn't it? 

The first half of the scale is major, and the other is minor?  Or do you mean the first half of the piece is major, the other is minor? 

The scale is G minor (melodic) which is the key of the piece.  There are alot of D chords in the middle section, making it feel like D might be tonic, but as you play it (or listen), G really sounds like tonic and D dominant.  Does anyone else see this or am I crazy?

[steve jones]

Not at all, that sounds quite rational. But if D was the underlying harmonic accompaniment, then surely we would be talking about a Mixolydian mode of the G Melodic minor scale?

SJ