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Topic: Who loves Scriabin!  (Read 5509 times)

Offline chopiabin

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Who loves Scriabin!
on: December 15, 2003, 01:08:42 AM
Hey, I was just wondering, how much Scriabin does each person have in his repertoire?

Although I love him, I don't have much in mine - Etudes op.2,#1, and op.8,#11. I really want to work on the op. 8#12, and the op. 49, #5. Has anyone played them?

Offline eddie92099

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Re: Who loves Scriabin!
Reply #1 on: December 15, 2003, 03:29:00 AM
I've never learnt a note. I don't think he is as important (in the entire piano repertoire) as many people on this forum think,
Ed

Offline liszmaninopin

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Re: Who loves Scriabin!
Reply #2 on: December 15, 2003, 03:39:10 AM
I enjoy some of his music, and hope to learn some of it someday, especially his black mass and white mass sonatas.  But that said, I don't love most of his compositions, but enjoy them.  Chopiabin, is your name from a sort of fusion of Chopin and Scriabin, like mine is a mixture of Liszt, Rachmaninoff, and Chopin?

Offline chopiabin

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Re: Who loves Scriabin!
Reply #3 on: December 15, 2003, 05:32:39 AM
Yeah, dude, you got it. I'm surprised that you guys don't think he's that important. Sure, at first he just took Chopin and added a lot of harmonic and technical complication, but his later music is incredibly original. Even his earliest sonatas are amazing simply for their technical difficulty, not to mention their beauty. But the last five? I only hope to be able to play those in my lifetime. But anyways, it's all personal opinion.

Chop

Offline chopiabin

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Re: Who loves Scriabin!
Reply #4 on: December 15, 2003, 05:34:27 AM
I agree, in the entire repertoire, he is not one of those movement defining composers, but I think that is partly because he was pretty far ahead of his time.
Me

Offline thracozaag

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Re: Who loves Scriabin!
Reply #5 on: December 15, 2003, 04:21:29 PM
Quote
Hey, I was just wondering, how much Scriabin does each person have in his repertoire?

Although I love him, I don't have much in mine - Etudes op.2,#1, and op.8,#11. I really want to work on the op. 8#12, and the op. 49, #5. Has anyone played them?


 Got 8 of the 10 sonatas....#1,2, 3, 4, 5,  7, 8 and 10
6 is next on the list...amazing piece.
"We have to reach a certain level before we realize how small we are."--Georges Cziffra

Offline thracozaag

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Re: Who loves Scriabin!
Reply #6 on: December 15, 2003, 04:22:51 PM
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I've never learnt a note. I don't think he is as important (in the entire piano repertoire) as many people on this forum think,
Ed



 Them's fightin' words, ED! ;)
"We have to reach a certain level before we realize how small we are."--Georges Cziffra

Offline liszmaninopin

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Re: Who loves Scriabin!
Reply #7 on: December 16, 2003, 01:22:33 AM
I really have done very little sight reading of his late sonatas.  Are they really that difficult?  

Offline chopiabin

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Re: Who loves Scriabin!
Reply #8 on: December 16, 2003, 09:10:48 AM
Check out the music from #'s 4, 5, 6, 7, 8,9, and 10. Physically they are very difficult, harmonically they are very difficult,  rhythmically they are very difficult, and I would imagine  that trying to play these pieces musically would be a superhuman feat that few have completed. Ashkenazy made a recording of all of them, and they are all very good, but the seventh seems to have a few problems, and Horowitz's recordings of the ninth and tenth seem much more sensical and coherent to me. the fifth is definitely my favorite. It seems very organic, and seems to convey the sense of ecstasy that Scriabin always tried to communicate through his music. If you have never heard these sonatas, buy them, and then listen to them quite a few times. When I first listened to them I didn't understand them at all, but now they make perfect sense.

Scriabin was a genius WAY ahead of his time, and most people just couldn't keep up with him.

Chop

Offline cziffra

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Re: Who loves Scriabin!
Reply #9 on: December 16, 2003, 04:00:23 PM
most composers have a Trademark piece everyone knows them by: rachmaninoffs prelude (or concerto) Pachalbels canon, saint saens carnival of the animals etc

what is scriabin's?  it seems is if he doesn't have one.
What it all comes down to is that one does not play the piano with one’s fingers; one plays the piano with one’s mind.-  Glenn Gould

Offline ravel

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Re: Who loves Scriabin!
Reply #10 on: December 17, 2003, 01:19:20 AM
etude opus 8 no.12

Offline thracozaag

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Re: Who loves Scriabin!
Reply #11 on: December 17, 2003, 04:51:03 AM
Quote
Check out the music from #'s 4, 5, 6, 7, 8,9, and 10. Physically they are very difficult, harmonically they are very difficult,  rhythmically they are very difficult, and I would imagine  that trying to play these pieces musically would be a superhuman feat that few have completed. Ashkenazy made a recording of all of them, and they are all very good, but the seventh seems to have a few problems, and Horowitz's recordings of the ninth and tenth seem much more sensical and coherent to me. the fifth is definitely my favorite. It seems very organic, and seems to convey the sense of ecstasy that Scriabin always tried to communicate through his music. If you have never heard these sonatas, buy them, and then listen to them quite a few times. When I first listened to them I didn't understand them at all, but now they make perfect sense.

Scriabin was a genius WAY ahead of his time, and most people just couldn't keep up with him.

Chop


 As much as I admire Ashkenazy, his complete recording of the Scriabin sonatas is quite lame.  Richter and Hamelin both play a great seventh, mine isn't too bad.
 My favorite sonata?  Hard to say, but I'd have to go with #8.  The opening, with its incredibly beautiful and complex counterpoint is mesmerizing.  It's damn near impossible to play though.
"We have to reach a certain level before we realize how small we are."--Georges Cziffra

Offline eddie92099

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Re: Who loves Scriabin!
Reply #12 on: December 17, 2003, 06:20:33 AM
I really should listen to these pieces I think  :),
Ed

Offline Daevren

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Re: Who loves Scriabin!
Reply #13 on: December 18, 2003, 12:04:20 AM
Scriabin wasn't that important, I agree, but he is probably my favorite classical composer. He is like a dead end in the evolution of music. His later work is the most remarkeble. His music is totally unique, its powerful, mystical... He really was a spiritit madman.

I don't really like short works in general but Scriabin has alot of them and some are really outstanding. Like op. 8 no.12 but also op. 11 no.14 It has a 15/8 time sig. The odd rhythm really create a unique atmosphere.

The sonata's are the real proof of his musical genius. You should hear his last 5 sonatas, they almost create a new harmonic approach, one that is alot more convincible than Schonbergs 12-tone system(IMO).

I recommend sonata 10, 7 and 5.

Offline thracozaag

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Re: Who loves Scriabin!
Reply #14 on: December 18, 2003, 05:26:06 PM
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I really should listen to these pieces I think  :),
Ed


 Just make sure you hear a good recording of them.  My holy trinity of Scriabin players is Horowitz, Richter and of course, Sofronitsky.  Hamelin's complete set of sonatas is also excellent, but avoid the Taub and Ashkenazy complete sets.
"We have to reach a certain level before we realize how small we are."--Georges Cziffra

Offline Daevren

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Re: Who loves Scriabin!
Reply #15 on: December 18, 2003, 06:11:18 PM
I have Ogdens complete Scriabin sonata's. How do those compare to the others?

Offline thracozaag

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Re: Who loves Scriabin!
Reply #16 on: December 18, 2003, 06:14:22 PM
Quote
I have Ogdens complete Scriabin sonata's. How do those compare to the others?



 For me, it was a disappointment, being the huge Ogden fan that I am.  I figured that he would really play Scriabin well, but most of it is quite dry.  His Vers Le flamme is great, though.
"We have to reach a certain level before we realize how small we are."--Georges Cziffra

Offline steinwaymodeld

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Re: Who loves Scriabin!
Reply #17 on: December 18, 2003, 11:12:43 PM
As told above, Scriabin's sonata and etudes are supreme.

Horowitz once said, for Scriabin, it's all overboarded, everything is super-mysterious, super romantic.

He played the Etude Op.2 No.1 when he visited Scriabin's home in Horowitz's late years when he returned to Moscow(and Kiev) and played this piece for Scriabin's daughter. Scribain's daughter cried afterward.

His Verse la Flamme is very good too, as well as his poemes.

Horowitz is definately one of the best Scriabin interpretator.
Perfection itself is imperfection - Vladimir Horowitz

Offline chopiabin

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Re: Who loves Scriabin!
Reply #18 on: December 19, 2003, 12:52:57 AM
Although I do not think Askenazy's are the best, I do think he gives a good performance of sonatas 1-5 and 8. I don't think one should entirely avoid these because they are readily available and include some very good performances. Horowitz is incredible. He brings out the inner voices in op.2,#1 so clearly that it sounds as if there are two pianos.

Chop

Offline thracozaag

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Re: Who loves Scriabin!
Reply #19 on: December 19, 2003, 05:29:04 PM
Quote
Although I do not think Askenazy's are the best, I do think he gives a good performance of sonatas 1-5 and 8. I don't think one should entirely avoid these because they are readily available and include some very good performances. Horowitz is incredible. He brings out the inner voices in op.2,#1 so clearly that it sounds as if there are two pianos.

Chop



 I'm sorry, but as much of a Ashkenazy fan that I am (especially the performances from the 60's-70') the complete Scriabin sonatas are quite boring and lame.  I wouldn't waste money on this complete set when the Hamelin is out there, and when you have amazing individual performances out there (like Horowitz, Richter, Sofronitsky).
"We have to reach a certain level before we realize how small we are."--Georges Cziffra

Offline redberry

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Re: Who loves Scriabin!
Reply #20 on: December 20, 2003, 10:37:24 AM
I do agree about the Ash.complete recording of Scriabin sonatas-just one world-boring. Not really in the composer spirit...even Sofronitsky plays wrong notes-it is much more alive and more in "legend" and have the style.

Offline cziffra

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Re: Who loves Scriabin!
Reply #21 on: December 20, 2003, 04:39:59 PM
what do you scriabin experts think of roger woodward's interpretations?

i've got a "late works" cd, its quite good, but i've never heard any others to compare it with.  any thoughts?
What it all comes down to is that one does not play the piano with one’s fingers; one plays the piano with one’s mind.-  Glenn Gould

Offline verwel

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Re: Who loves Scriabin!
Reply #22 on: December 20, 2003, 04:52:46 PM
And he was a superb pianist too!!
Well, all this is quite personal, off course, but I find him the most original pianomusic composer. The problem with his music is - in my opinion- that it is extremely difficult to read!!
I agree that it is better to avoid Askenazy in this repertoire, but i quite like Taub's version of the 6th sonata (6th sonata which is probably the most excentric of all his sonatas). There exists a very good Leonskaja version of the very difficult, but extremely beautifull second sonata and a beautifull Gould version of the 3rd sonata. For the rest, anyone interested in the music of Scriabin seems to agree on the quality of Horowitz, Richter and Sofronitsky. Don't forget Michael Rudy.
(By the way, there is at least one live recording of the 10th piano sonata by Volodos out there and it is very innacurate.)

Offline thracozaag

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Re: Who loves Scriabin!
Reply #23 on: December 20, 2003, 06:51:16 PM
Quote
what do you scriabin experts think of roger woodward's interpretations?

i've got a "late works" cd, its quite good, but i've never heard any others to compare it with.  any thoughts?



 Thanks for pointing oiut Woodward.  His 6th sonata is absolutely superb.  A really wonderful pianist..what has happened to him?
"We have to reach a certain level before we realize how small we are."--Georges Cziffra

Offline thracozaag

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Re: Who loves Scriabin!
Reply #24 on: December 20, 2003, 06:54:03 PM
Quote
And he was a superb pianist too!!
Well, all this is quite personal, off course, but I find him the most original pianomusic composer. The problem with his music is - in my opinion- that it is extremely difficult to read!!
I agree that it is better to avoid Askenazy in this repertoire, but i quite like Taub's version of the 6th sonata (6th sonata which is probably the most excentric of all his sonatas). There exists a very good Leonskaja version of the very difficult, but extremely beautifull second sonata and a beautifull Gould version of the 3rd sonata. For the rest, anyone interested in the music of Scriabin seems to agree on the quality of Horowitz, Richter and Sofronitsky. Don't forget Michael Rudy.
(By the way, there is at least one live recording of the 10th piano sonata by Volodos out there and it is very innacurate.)



 I had forgotten Gould's version of the 3rd sonata, which is indeed beautiful.  I admire his bringing out of the counterpoint (no big surprise there) which is a neglected aspect of Scriabin's craft.  I also would like to mention a wonderful live performance of the 4th by Nelson Friere, and a studio one by Gavrilov.  Volodos's 10th sonata, which I heard live, was not my cup of tea.  As far as Taub's 6th...I much prefer Richter's live one (a staggering performance), and Hamelin's and Kuerti's studio versions, along with the Woodward, mentioned above.
"We have to reach a certain level before we realize how small we are."--Georges Cziffra

Offline cziffra

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Re: Who loves Scriabin!
Reply #25 on: December 21, 2003, 04:58:42 AM
roger is still performing- he does a lot of local concerts in towns that typically don't attract big artists, he wants to make music accessible to everyone, see.  i think this sort of lowers his image in the elite circles, so you don't hear of him alot- his services in poland also detracted from his career a huge deal, he was out of the "circuit" so to speak for about 15 years.  

i still find him hugely talented and an amazing musician- the fact that he didn't get on the list of the "great pianists of the 20th century" is to me a travesty.  he could have taken weissenberg's spot anyday.  
What it all comes down to is that one does not play the piano with one’s fingers; one plays the piano with one’s mind.-  Glenn Gould

Offline thracozaag

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Re: Who loves Scriabin!
Reply #26 on: December 22, 2003, 05:23:13 PM
Quote
roger is still performing- he does a lot of local concerts in towns that typically don't attract big artists, he wants to make music accessible to everyone, see.  i think this sort of lowers his image in the elite circles, so you don't hear of him alot- his services in poland also detracted from his career a huge deal, he was out of the "circuit" so to speak for about 15 years.  

i still find him hugely talented and an amazing musician- the fact that he didn't get on the list of the "great pianists of the 20th century" is to me a travesty.  he could have taken weissenberg's spot anyday.  


 Thanks for the update; nice to hear that such a talented pianist is still performing.
"We have to reach a certain level before we realize how small we are."--Georges Cziffra

Offline steinway88

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Re: Who loves Scriabin!
Reply #27 on: January 08, 2004, 04:12:01 AM
Im a big fan of Horowitz playing of Scriabin. I never heard anyone play the etude op8 no12 like that. But as for scriabin repitore Im curious if anyone played vers la flamme [into the flame]?

Offline thracozaag

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Re: Who loves Scriabin!
Reply #28 on: January 08, 2004, 03:55:09 PM
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Im a big fan of Horowitz playing of Scriabin. I never heard anyone play the etude op8 no12 like that. But as for scriabin repitore Im curious if anyone played vers la flamme [into the flame]?



 Great piece, and not as difficult as the late sonatas.
"We have to reach a certain level before we realize how small we are."--Georges Cziffra

Offline cziffra

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Re: Who loves Scriabin!
Reply #29 on: January 13, 2004, 05:24:36 AM
roger plays vers la flemme, i've got a cd of it, it's quite good

i listened also to his piano concerto, not sure if i like it- the whole thing was finished in a month when he was really young, which is amazing, but it felt a bit patchworky.  

in other news, my genius bookfinding father has managed to locate the 8 konemann urtext volumes, totalling the complete works of scriabin, for a total of 40 dollars!  i have no idea how he did it, because apparently they're out of print now, but i'm so happy about it.  there's one particular prelude i have my eye on, the op 74 no 2
What it all comes down to is that one does not play the piano with one’s fingers; one plays the piano with one’s mind.-  Glenn Gould

Offline thracozaag

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Re: Who loves Scriabin!
Reply #30 on: January 13, 2004, 04:59:39 PM
Quote
roger plays vers la flemme, i've got a cd of it, it's quite good

i listened also to his piano concerto, not sure if i like it- the whole thing was finished in a month when he was really young, which is amazing, but it felt a bit patchworky.  

in other news, my genius bookfinding father has managed to locate the 8 konemann urtext volumes, totalling the complete works of scriabin, for a total of 40 dollars!  i have no idea how he did it, because apparently they're out of print now, but i'm so happy about it.  there's one particular prelude i have my eye on, the op 74 no 2


 I'm VERY jealous. >:(
"We have to reach a certain level before we realize how small we are."--Georges Cziffra

Offline bernhard

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Re: Who loves Scriabin!
Reply #31 on: January 13, 2004, 06:39:54 PM
Konemann is back in business. :)

Have a look at:

https://www.burtnco.com/konemann.htm
The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. (Hunter Thompson)

Offline thracozaag

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Re: Who loves Scriabin!
Reply #32 on: January 13, 2004, 06:42:08 PM
Quote
Konemann is back in business. :)

Have a look at:

https://www.burtnco.com/konemann.htm



 This is wonderful news! Thanks for the update.

koji
"We have to reach a certain level before we realize how small we are."--Georges Cziffra

Offline Matthias

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Re: Who loves Scriabin!
Reply #33 on: February 13, 2004, 03:22:53 PM
I like the recording played by Michael Rudy. I've only heard his late works, but they are fantastic (8th, 9th sonate, vers la flamme, flammes sombres, ...)

Offline liszmaninopin

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Re: Who loves Scriabin!
Reply #34 on: February 16, 2004, 08:38:46 PM
I've come to really enjoy the late Scriabin Sonatas.  I especially like #'s 6 and 9.

Offline chopiabin

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Re: Who loves Scriabin!
Reply #35 on: February 16, 2004, 09:21:08 PM
5 and 7 are two of my favorites. I also love 8 and 10 when well-played. The early ones are awesome too.

Offline Ecthelion

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Re: Who loves Scriabin!
Reply #36 on: February 19, 2004, 05:04:44 PM
I only know his 4. and 5. sonatas. But it's not what I like as great music... def. not my music style  :)

regards,
Ecthelion

Offline chopiabin

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Re: Who loves Scriabin!
Reply #37 on: February 20, 2004, 02:29:30 AM
How many times have you listened to them?

Offline dj

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Re: Who loves Scriabin!
Reply #38 on: February 21, 2004, 05:24:00 AM
hey, while we're all talkin about scriabin....can anyone recommend any of his pieces that are maybe a bit less difficult than the etudes or sonatas?......im not the virtuistic pianist that i know a lot of you r (the most difficult of my pieces at this point being chopin's op. 42 waltz), but i do like scriabin....just haven't heard a buncha pieces by him that i could actually play.
rach on!

Offline chopiabin

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Re: Who loves Scriabin!
Reply #39 on: February 21, 2004, 09:45:58 AM
You really could probably play the op.2 #1 etude. It is really gorgrous, and it requires very good voicing and "crawling" technique rather than any sort of jumps and leaps. He also has a ton of preludes, many of which are very beautiful without being painfully difficult.

Offline scriabinsmyman

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Re: Who loves Scriabin!
Reply #40 on: March 16, 2004, 04:02:59 PM
YOU GUYS, STOP DISSING SCRIABIN!!!!  >:( He's as important at Rach and Chopin and Liszt- I feel he combines all those guys into one!!!  In my present repertoire, I have Etude in D-sharp minor and Fantasy in B-minor...still working on his sonatas...BUT THIS GUY IS AMAZING!!! you don't know until you play him in concert-  i positively get a high off of it!
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