Ultra difficult piano music - Composers and Pianists

[stormx]

I wonder whether those XXI composers that write extremely difficult piano music are indeed able to really play it...
For instance, i have read here that Sorabji did perform his own music, so i deduce he was a piano virtuoso. Is this right?
What about the others (specially those contemporary composers with all the PC stuff at their disposal)? Do they compose music even knowing that it would be impossible to play by any human?

 

[walking_encyclopedia]

i can't think of any off the top of my head.

chopin, liszt, grieg, prokofiev, rachmaninoff, beethoven, brahms, saint-saens- they were all piano virtuosos who performed their music in concert.

[trunks]

Ravel could not play his own piano concertos. Neither the G major (for both hands) nor the D minor (for left hand).

I wonder if he could play his own Gaspard de la Nuit.

[gymnopedist]

Ravel could not play his own piano concertos. Neither the G major (for both hands) nor the D minor (for left hand).

I wonder if he could play his own Gaspard de la Nuit.

He could play both gaspard (decently) and the concertos. He planned on premiering the G major himself, but didn't feel up to it in the end, and let Marguerite Long do it instead. Ravel could also play the D major, but he had to use both hands... He was actually a decent pianist in his younger days, but his abilities deteriorated over time.

[pianowelsh]

The guy died of some kind of debilitating brain tumour - give him a chance.
i know nowadays with lots of music being notated and inspired by computer software not so many of the composers for piano are actually piano players.  this is a shame because sometimes they right things which are almost impossible.  Having said that there are plenty of current day pianist composers. Most composers also tend to play piano to a pretty decent amateur level anyway even if 'their instrument' is really the peruvian noseflute.

[gymnopedist]

The guy died of some kind of debilitating brain tumour - give him a chance.

yeah, sorry, i should have added something like that...

[presto agitato]

Schubert wasnt able to play his most difficult work: Wanderer Fantasy

[emmdoubleew]

Godowsky.

[thorn]

Ravel could not play his own piano concertos. Neither the G major (for both hands) nor the D minor (for left hand).

I wonder if he could play his own Gaspard de la Nuit.

He played one of the concertos- I studied Ravel for my a-level french oral exam, and read that just before the performance of it, he turned to the conductor and whispered "alas, now it will be ruined" (because he was the soloist)

As for Gaspard, I have his piano rolls, and Ondine and Le Gibet are on there (Ondine is pretty awful though)

[tompilk]

this is a question ive always wondered - can a composer compose for piano if he has never played a piano in his life? Is it an instrument you can truly put to good use if you arent experienced in it? Because I'm sure that LIszt, Mozart, Sorabji or any famous composer could play all teh instruments they composed for!!! Is the piano a special case?
Tom

[sevencircles]

Schubert is rumoured to be one of the first composers that couldn´t play their own pianoworks.

[letters]

it is very true that composers write music for instruments which they dont play. Playing vivaldi flute concertos requires you to be like a violin as there are long passages without decent breathing places and lots of repeated violiny type notes.
i would think that, to be able to know what your piece sounded like you would have to play it to some extent, but i suspect several composers wrote it down, played it badly and hoped someone would play it well enough to make it sound like it is in the composers head!

[mikey6]

Ravel was in a car crash in America and suffered some form of brain malfunction.  He still wanted to compose in his last years but didn't have the capacity to transform his thoughts to writing.  They operated twice but lost him.  (I studied hi in year 12, it's pretty horrible reading about it!)

Read the notes in the Aimard recording of Ligeti's etudes - it explains how he composed them and how he had to transform what was in his mind to what was pianistically possible.

[soliloquy]

Finnissy and Nancarrow could play their own stuff.  Doesn't get much harder than that.

[ahinton]

Finnissy and Nancarrow could play their own stuff.  Doesn't get much harder than that.

Well, yes - but is/was Finnissy necessarily always the finest interpreter of his work? (not, of course, that you are suggesting that he is or was so) - and, perhaps more importantly, since most of Nancarrow's "piano" music was not intended for the attention of human hands, I'm not entirely sure that your citation of him adequately supports what I believe to be the cornerstone of your argument here.

Best,

Alistair

[soliloquy]

Well, yes - but is/was Finnissy necessarily always the finest interpreter of his work? (not, of course, that you are suggesting that he is or was so) - and, perhaps more importantly, since most of Nancarrow's "piano" music was not intended for the attention of human hands, I'm not entirely sure that your citation of him adequately supports what I believe to be the cornerstone of your argument here.

Best,

Alistair

Nancarrow played all of his stuff for actual piano like Tango?, Three Two-Part Inventions, Three Canons, Sonatina and Prelude & Blues.  Dunno how many people would call that stuff easy. 

[pies]

prokofiev ... performed [his] music in concert.

I remember reading somewhere that he was a very dry pianist; that he did not play with much emotion and thus had other virtuosi perform his works. I could be wrong, though.

[jre58591]

on another note, hamelin sais that he is no longer able to play his compositions anymore (properly). what a shame.

[da jake]

Why? He's only 45!

[jre58591]

Why? He's only 45!

well, it isnt because its too difficult or because hes getting old. he says that he doesnt have time to practice other pieces besides the ones he performs regularly or the ones needed for recordings. although, the getting old factor may start to play itself out soon, sadly.

[ahinton]

Nancarrow played all of his stuff for actual piano like Tango?, Three Two-Part Inventions, Three Canons, Sonatina and Prelude & Blues.  Dunno how many people would call that stuff easy. 

I know that he did. I don't know how many people would call it easy either, although I think it fair to say that none of it is as demanding as his player-piano pieces would be to any pianist attempting to play those that could conceivably be played at all by human hands - nor, indeed, is it as demanding as some of Sorabji's or Finnissy's work. Sorabji played some of his own piano music,l too, although not with the kind of textual accuracy we have now come to expect.

Best,

Alistair