What scale is this?

[tyler_johnson]

E, F#, G, A, B, C#, D, D#, E.

It's like an E harmonic minor something.

[jlh]

Definitely not harmonic minor -- you'd need a minor 6th.  It's a non-retrogradable octatonic scale.  Sounds like something a bassist would play leading up to tonic.

[prometheus]

Well, lets look at it from an easy way.

Without the D# it is a D major scale.

You start your scale with E, which leads me to assue that the E note is the tonic. This means the second mode of D major, E dorian.

Then we have this added note. D#. This is just a added chromatic note.


Maybe D# does have an harmonic function. Then we do have E harmonic minor scale of some type. But like jlh points out, we don't have a minor 6th. But that is no problem. This scale is called natural minor. I mean, harmonic minor is the natural minor scale but then with a minor 6th instead of major 6th.
This time D will be the added chromatic note with no harmonic function. This case is a lot more theoretical. I don't think this will be the case. But it would be possible to make a piece of music that fits this analysis. I mean, adding the D note kind of defeats the purpose of the major 7th(D#). I mean, you replace the D with the D# and then you readd the D.

[jlh]

Good points, prometheus.  My initial analysis led me to think that this was a fusion of 2 scales, but ended up just stating the obvious.   

[tyler_johnson]

Definitely not harmonic minor -- you'd need a minor 6th.  It's a non-retrogradable octatonic scale.  Sounds like something a bassist would play leading up to tonic.

Actually, you're exactly right.  I'm writing a bass line for "My Favorite Things", a jazz standard.  And i'm thinking instead of the boring E, F#, E, F#, E, F# etc...mixing it up a little, and having the bassist play E, F#, G, A, B, C#, D, D#, E instead.  Sounds cooler anyway.

E dorian makes sense now that I think about it, but still with that D# in there it kind of throws it off.

[prometheus]

There is a lot of chromatism in jazz. Actually, a good bebop solo uses all 12 notes. If you have played jazz you know that actually your pallet does consist out of 12 notes. But you aren't playing a chromatic scale.

You have all 12 notes ready to play. But they are in different categories. The first will be scale notes, or an arpeggio. These notes are all resting points. Then you have the notes of the tonality, or scale. There will be 7, always. They all have a harmonic function. Then you have all the other notes. They are pure chromatic. They have no harmonic function.


So since you have more than 7 notes there need to be chromatic notes in there. This is because tonality demands 7 notes, for some reason. And this is universal. The D# does not throw off. It should be used off beat to link D and E. I mean, D# is the leading note to E. Just play a single line solo using any scale and use b7 7 1( in that scale. Melodically there is no real problem. The problem is one of harmony. That's why one of them will be non-harmonic. And that is why you need to look at the chords to determine the actual nature of the tonality.

[steve jones]

From my experience of jazz, solo phrases tend to a mish mash of diatonic scale and arpeggios, often linked using chromatic notes. Scales can also change regularly. Its very free, but you have to stop thinking like a classical musician! Maybe smoke a few joints of something, and loosen up. All the jazzers I knew had little theoretical knowledge. But they did have great ears, and the ability to 'think on their feet'.

I mean, half the chords in jazz are altered anyway, especially dominants. So just play what you think sounds good, and save the analysis for another day.

Or even better, dont bother. Then when you're a famous composer, kids can sit of internet forums and arguing over why theirs a Db rather than a D#!  Im convinced that more than one composers has done this in his years. Jerry Goldsmith and plenty of other film composers openly admit to simply penning what they 'hearing' in their heads.

But getting back on topic, the scale is E Melodic Minor with a chromatic passing note (D#). They use these in Jazz and Blues all the time. For example, the traditional Blues scale is a simple minor Pentatonic with a chromatic passing note between the third and fourth degrees.

SJ

[prometheus]

There are some people that really didn't know much. But generally in jazz, pop and rock famous musicians downplay their knowledge of music theory. I mean, it is not cool to know a lot. But it really helps them. So they do know a lot but then deny it. This is very common. Don't believe all these musicians that claim they didn't know anything.


Yes, I think I even forgot the term 'passing note', but that is what it is. Very common.