Parallel 5ths and 8ths/Tonal Harmony

[keyofc]

What are the ways you check your work for parallel 5ths and octaves?

[mwarner1]

There's only one way: compare each voice's motion to all the others'. I don't think any more detail is really possible. There is no shortcut, if that's what you're looking for.

[steve jones]

Usually the first thing to do is to check from the bass upward. Then consider parrallels in the inner voices. Finally, there are hidden parrallels which are much harder to spot.

There will be times when you may have to except a bad motion. But more often than not, you will be able to work around it.

SJ

[m1469]

As mwarner1 and steve jones mentioned, there are no shortcuts and you just do as they mentioned.  I just want to add a little thought to this theory book exploration.

I have found it helpful to note that nothing in music is "wrong".  A theory book and study into theory simply tells us what is common within Western music, or what kind of affects different combinations of notes and rhythms produce (which we have been trained to hear and feel -- through repeated listening to the style).   With that in mind, there is nothing that you are actually not supposed to do with either voice-leading nor with things like parallel octaves and 5ths.

However, because there are common practices within Western music, some of those combinations will seem "stonger" than others.  For example, parallel octaves are considered to be too "open" so in a first year theory class where a person is learning about voice leading, they are prohibited.  If an individual writes a piece of music that utilizes this particular compositional tool, the composition will be marked "wrong". 

Recall though, that composers actually use this tool in some of the most celebrated music we know.  For example, Liszt often employs parallel octaves within his music.  Does that mean he was no good ?  Not necessarily.  It means that he simply wanted that particular affect.

I know this is not quite what you were asking about, but I felt I wanted to add this to the spirit of the endeavor.


m1469

[stevehopwood]

Recall though, that composers actually use this tool in some of the most celebrated music we know.  For example, Liszt often employs parallel octaves within his music.  Does that mean he was no good ?  Not necessarily.  It means that he simply wanted that particular affect.

Piano music is different - the instrument basically has the same timbre throughout.

Students are taught to avoid consecutive 5ths and 8ths when writing 4 part vocal harmony in classical\baroque because of the different timbres of SATB voices. These timbres heighten the effect of the intervals when moving and make them sound bare and overpowering. This is not the case when writing for the piano.

keyofc, as others have said there is no shortcut; you have to compare the movement from chord to chord of each individual part. The good news is that this quickly  becomes automatic and spotting consecutives becomes automatic. Consecs in my own students work leap off the page at me, but I developed this skill as an 'A' level student in the UK, within weeks of starting harmony.

One little tip that helps. When you start an exercise, first select your chord structure and then write in the complete bass line. This makes spotting consecs between bass and sop easy.

Steve 

[m1469]

Piano music is different -

Not in a first year theory class.   

[cjp_piano]

The easiest way to avoid parallels is for the upper voices to move in contrary motion to the bass.  This is not a cure-all, but in most cases works.

[stevehopwood]

Not in a first year theory class.   

Come to think of it, it wasn't in my first year class back in 1970 either.

Some things never change 

[oguzcan]

The thing about paralel perfect consonances is one of the old rules of traditional harmony. Of course it won't be wrong to use it nowadays because not many people compose within the borders of traditional harmony. I don't think anyone sits down to a serious composition and starts with iii-vi-ii-V-I.

Parallelism has been frowned upon since the late-renaissenance and early-baroque, mainly because of two main reasons:

1) The first polyphonic works were produced by two or three voices, which sing the melody a 5th or an 8ve higher or lower. This was called an organum. There were no countermelodies no harmonies etc. After the hundred year wars (i believe) some English composers started to use the 3rds, and this idea quickly spread in the Europe. Many composers started to use the harmonic 3rds and counterpoint and they simple tried to get away from the old organums which they called the ars antiqua. Their music was called ars nova. For distinctly separating the two, they heavily avoided paralel perfect consonances. After that, this became a tradition until Debussy.

2)The music of that period strived for simultaneous independent melodies and paralel perfect consonances didn't give that feeling because two melodies harmonised by a perfect consonances gives the same invervallic structure. But if you harmonize it with tonal 3rds, the intervallic structure will change between major and minor 3rds. This was a technique called faux-bourdon; which means false-parallelism.

However, if you double a voice with an octave (it's not common to double with a 5th) it doesn't count as parallelism, you simply do that to make that voice louder. Also, in piano writing, it might not be available to avoid them in the left hand with the chords.But these are just learned to appreciate the traditional writing, after Debussy, no one thinks about them when composing.

As for how to look out for them; it's simple actually. Look at the first chord. Locate the 5th and the octave (there might be more than one or there might not be any). Look to see if they advanced to another 5th or an octave in the following chord. When part-writing, there's an easier solution: If the two chords have a common tone, they are not adjancent in the scale. In this situation; if you keep the common tones probably there won't be a problem. If the chords are adjancent in the scale, try to use inversions. Watch out for dissonant skips.

[steve jones]

As mwarner1 and steve jones mentioned, there are no shortcuts and you just do as they mentioned.  I just want to add a little thought to this theory book exploration.

I have found it helpful to note that nothing in music is "wrong".  A theory book and study into theory simply tells us what is common within Western music, or what kind of affects different combinations of notes and rhythms produce (which we have been trained to hear and feel -- through repeated listening to the style).   With that in mind, there is nothing that you are actually not supposed to do with either voice-leading nor with things like parallel octaves and 5ths.

However, because there are common practices within Western music, some of those combinations will seem "stonger" than others.  For example, parallel octaves are considered to be too "open" so in a first year theory class where a person is learning about voice leading, they are prohibited.  If an individual writes a piece of music that utilizes this particular compositional tool, the composition will be marked "wrong". 

Recall though, that composers actually use this tool in some of the most celebrated music we know.  For example, Liszt often employs parallel octaves within his music.  Does that mean he was no good ?  Not necessarily.  It means that he simply wanted that particular affect.

I know this is not quite what you were asking about, but I felt I wanted to add this to the spirit of the endeavor.


m1469

Totally. Parallel octaves are used all the time in classical and romantic music. However, I tend to think of this more as a doubling for timbral reasons, ie, reinforcing a single melodic line. Orchestrators do this ALL the time, sometimes stacking up several octaves of doubling to convey a monophonic line (just listen to Mozart's first symphony!).

So yeah, I agree that one does need to understand why these rules were made as much as how the function. That way we know when its safe to break them 

SJ


SJ

[steve jones]

The thing about paralel perfect consonances is one of the old rules of traditional harmony. Of course it won't be wrong to use it nowadays because not many people compose within the borders of traditional harmony. I don't think anyone sits down to a serious composition and starts with iii-vi-ii-V-I.

Parallelism has been frowned upon since the late-renaissenance and early-baroque, mainly because of two main reasons:

1) The first polyphonic works were produced by two or three voices, which sing the melody a 5th or an 8ve higher or lower. This was called an organum. There were no countermelodies no harmonies etc. After the hundred year wars (i believe) some English composers started to use the 3rds, and this idea quickly spread in the Europe. Many composers started to use the harmonic 3rds and counterpoint and they simple tried to get away from the old organums which they called the ars antiqua. Their music was called ars nova. For distinctly separating the two, they heavily avoided paralel perfect consonances. After that, this became a tradition until Debussy.

2)The music of that period strived for simultaneous independent melodies and paralel perfect consonances didn't give that feeling because two melodies harmonised by a perfect consonances gives the same invervallic structure. But if you harmonize it with tonal 3rds, the intervallic structure will change between major and minor 3rds. This was a technique called faux-bourdon; which means false-parallelism.

However, if you double a voice with an octave (it's not common to double with a 5th) it doesn't count as parallelism, you simply do that to make that voice louder. Also, in piano writing, it might not be available to avoid them in the left hand with the chords.But these are just learned to appreciate the traditional writing, after Debussy, no one thinks about them when composing.

As for how to look out for them; it's simple actually. Look at the first chord. Locate the 5th and the octave (there might be more than one or there might not be any). Look to see if they advanced to another 5th or an octave in the following chord. When part-writing, there's an easier solution: If the two chords have a common tone, they are not adjancent in the scale. In this situation; if you keep the common tones probably there won't be a problem. If the chords are adjancent in the scale, try to use inversions. Watch out for dissonant skips.

Its the hidden ones which are the buggers spot imo. Like sometimes two fifths will occur but between different voices and positions with in the texture. I find these almost impossible to entirely eradicate.

But the straight forward consecutives are pretty easy to see and work around.

SJ

[oguzcan]

In a four-part texture, as a general rule, the so-called hidden paralels are avoided only in the outer voices, that is, soprano & bass. Sure, you have to avoid them all the time when composing a 4-part fugue but in a chorale harmonization, hidden paralelism involving the inner voices is not a strict no-no. We can see them in Bach's chorales as an example. Some critical issues are; don't resolve an 8ve to a 5th, don't make a similar motion between bass and soprano which results in an 8ve or a 5th and don't leap "too much" to an 8ve or a 5th.

As for 5ths and 8ves happening at different voices, I don't think it will be a problem if I understand it correctly. I guess you are talking about a 5th in the tenor and alto in the first chord and another 5th in the tenor and soprano in the next chord etc... That would naturally occur if we are to use complete harmonies. But again, it would be better not to leap too much at these voices.

[stevehopwood]

Post deleted because it was totally stupid.

Steve 

[Derek]

Even bach had a few parallels. Sometimes there is no way to avoid them. Furthermore---if you are writing music that has a lot of interesting rhythms in it---you should probably ignore these rules, as your listener will hear independence in the rhythm rather than the harmony. Then harmony will become a free expressive tool.

In terms of checking for them you should also remain aware of what instrument you are writing for. Parallel octaves for example are very common in piano music, but when these are employed the two notes in the octave ARE intended by the composer to be a single voice, so this is not "incorrect."

Basically, whenever YOU want to preserve absolute harmonic vertical independence, just...look for wherever that independence is not adequately preserved.  Having too many parallel 3rds, 6ths, 10ths in a row can also diminish independence because the voices aren't doing their own thing enough.

[oguzcan]

Pardon?

Anyone here understand any of this?

Steve 

Which part seems complicated? I can try to clarify a little if you want.

[pantonality]

Which part seems complicated? I can try to clarify a little if you want.

I think the author of that post was indulging in some anti-intellectualism. To answer that poster's question, yes, I understood it just fine. I very much appreciate when I read some historical perspective on the development of music theory.

Steve

[stevehopwood]

Which part seems complicated? I can try to clarify a little if you want.

No need, oguzcan. I was being totally thick.

I apologise unreservedly.

Steve