church modes

[mikey6]

I always though they ran like this
c-c Ionian
d-d Dorian
e-e Phrygian
f-f Lydian
g-g Mixolydian
a-a Aeolian
b-b Locrian

But this contradicts it -
The three permutations of this shade of diatonic tetrachord are:


Lydian mode


A rising scale of two whole tones followed by a semitone, or C D E F.


Phrygian mode


A rising scale of tone, semitone and tone, C D E? F, or D E F G.


Dorian mode


A rising scale of a semitone followed by two tones, C D? E? F, or E F G A

??

[mike_lang]

They do, in fact, in agreement with your first idea.  Alternatively:

Major:
Ionian
Lydian (#4)
Mixolydian (b7)

Minor:
Aeolian
Dorian (#6)
Phrygian (b2)

Best,
ML

[prometheus]

You don't have the contemporary definition of the modes. You seem to use the ancient greek versions. Read wikipedia more carefully

We are talking about intervals. Not about actual notes. You need to compare F major with F lydian.


C Lydian is C D E F# G A B

Ancient greek C lydian equals our present major mode. But you are talking about the church modes. They have nothing to do with Greece or greek music theory. They are just named after greek topographical areas.

[pianistimo]

in 'a concise history of western music' (updated version) it says:

'treatises in the age of charlemagne and in the later middle ages reflected actual practice to a greater extent than the more speculative earlier writings.  they always spoke of boethius with reverence and passed along the mathematical fundamentals of scale building, intervals, and consonances that he transmitted from the greeks.  but reading boethius did not help solve the immediate problems of how to sing intervals, memorize chants, and later, read notes at sight.  theorists addressed these goals in establishing the system of eight modes, or toni  (tones) as medival writers called them.

the medieval modal system developed gradually, achieving its complete form by the eleventh century.  it encompassed eight modes, each defined by the sequence of whole tones and semitones in a diatonic octave built on a finalis, or final.  in practice, this note was usually the last note in the melody.  the modes were identified by numbers and grouped in pairs; the odd numbered modes were called authentic, and the even-numbered modes plagal (collateral).'

**note from pg. 34 'in the tenth century, a few authors, misreading boethius, applied the names of the greek tonoi to the church modes, even thought the two systems were not at all parallel.  although neither medieval treatises nor modern liturgical books refer to the modes by the greek names (preferring numerals), their original ethnic designations appear in modern textbooks on counterpoint and analysis.'