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Leif Ove Andsnes - Beethoven takes you by the hand
There are apparently some pianists who, despite the anniversary, are not devoting them exclusively to Beethoven this year. Anyway, with his Beethoven Journey project, Leif Ove Andsnes has already done his bit, making one of the most beautiful recordings of the piano concertos. For Andsnes, Mozart is currently uppermost on the agenda, even if there is also plenty of Beethoven being played at his festival too. Time for another conversation with the Norwegian master pianist. Read more >>

Topic: Great Pianists of the 20th Century CDs  (Read 3299 times)

Offline eddie92099

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Great Pianists of the 20th Century CDs
on: December 21, 2003, 07:30:46 AM
Who are the glaring omissions and the undeserving place-holders?
Ed

Offline findingnemo

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Re: Great Pianists of the 20th Century CDs
Reply #1 on: December 21, 2003, 02:48:00 PM
It doesnt have Lazar Berman (Ive met him, thats why he should be up there ;D)
and how come Marc-Andre Hamelin,Ivo Pogorelich, Arcadi Volodos  are omitted? they are good ! 8)

I'd prefer them much more than the good ol'Paderewski
....I still don't understand how he achieved such a fame...  ;)
fish are friends, not food :)

Offline Dave_2004_G

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Re: Great Pianists of the 20th Century CDs
Reply #2 on: December 21, 2003, 04:40:21 PM
Is there a list of the artists anywhere?

Dave

Offline eddie92099

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Re: Great Pianists of the 20th Century CDs
Reply #3 on: December 21, 2003, 05:01:26 PM
1 Gťza Anda 1921 1976 Hongarije cd 1
2 Martha Argerich 1941   ArgentiniŽ cd 2-3
3 Claudio Arrau 1903 1991 Chili cd 4, 5 en 6
4 Vladimir Ashkenazy 1937   Rusland cd 7
5 Wilhelm Backhaus 1884 1969 Duitsland cd 8
6 Daniel Barenboim 1942   ArgentiniŽ cd 9
7 Jorge Bolet 1914 1990 Cuba cd 10 en 11
8 Alfred Brendel 1931   TsjechiŽ cd 12, 13 en 14
9 Lyubov Bruk (met Mark Taimonov) 1926 1996 OekraÔne cd 15
10 Robert Casadesus 1899 1972 Frankrijk cd 16
11 Shura Cherkassky 1911 1995 Rusland cd 17 en 18
12 Van Cliburn 1934   Verenigde Staten cd 19
13 Alfred Cortot 1877 1962 Zwitserland cd 20 en 21
14 Clifford Curzon 1907 1982 Groot-BrittanniŽ cd 22
15 GyŲrgy Cziffra 1921 1994 Hongarije cd 23
16 Christoph Eschenbach 1940   Polen cd 24
17 Edwin Fischer 1886 1960 Zwitserland cd 25 en 26
18 Leon Fleisher 1928   Verenigde Staten cd 27
19 Samson FranÁois 1924 1970 Duitsland cd 28
20 Nelson Freire 1944   BraziliŽ cd 29
21 Ignaz Friedman 1882 1948 Polen cd 30
22 Andrei Gavrilov 1955   Rusland cd 31
23 Walter Gieseking 1895 1956 Duitsland cd 32 en 33
24 Emil Gilels 1916 1985 Rusland cd 34, 35 en 36
25 Grigory Ginsburg 1904 1961 Rusland cd 37
26 Leopold Godowsky 1870 1938 Litouwen cd 38
27 Glenn Gould 1932 1982 Canada cd 39
28 Friedrich Gulda 1930   Oostenrijk cd 40 en 41
29 Ingrid Haebler 1929   Oostenrijk cd 42
30 Clara Haskil 1895 1960 RoemeniŽ cd 43 en 44
31 Myra Hess 1890 1965 Groot-BrittanniŽ cd 45
32 Josef Hofmann 1876 1957 Polen cd 46
33 Vladimir Horowitz 1904 1989 Rusland cd 47, 48 en 49
34 Byron Janis 1928   Verenigde Staten cd 50 en 51
35 William Kapell 1922 1953 Verenigde Staten cd 52
36 Julius Katchen 1926 1969 Verenigde Staten cd 53 en 54
37 Wilhelm Kempff 1895 1991 Duitsland cd 55, 56 en 57
38 Evgeny Kissin 1971   Rusland cd 58
39 ZoltŠn Kocsis 1952   Hongarije cd 59
40 Stephen Kovacevich 1940   Verenigde Staten cd 60 en 61
41 Alicia de Larrocha 1923   Spanje cd 62 en 63
42 Jozef Lhťvinne (met Rosina Lhťvinne) 1874 1944 Rusland cd 64
43 Rosina Lhťvinne (met Jozef Lhťvinne) 1880 1976 OekraÔne cd 64
44 Dinu Lipatti 1917 1950 RoemeniŽ cd 65
45 Radu Lupu 1945   RoemeniŽ cd 66
46 Nikita Magaloff 1912 1992 Rusland cd 67
47 Arturo Benedetti Michelangeli 1920 1995 ItaliŽ cd 68 en 69
48 Benno Moiseiwitsch 1890 1963 Rusland cd 70
49 Ivan Moravec 1930   TsjechiŽ cd 71
50 John Ogdon 1937 1989 Groot-BrittanniŽ cd 72 en 73
51 Ignacy Jan Paderewski 1860 1941 Polen cd 74
52 Murray Perahia 1947   Verenigde Staten cd 75
53 Maria Joao Pires 1944   Portugal cd 76
54 Mikhail Pletnev 1957   Rusland cd 77
55 Maurizio Pollini 1942   ItaliŽ cd 78 en 79
56 Andrť Previn 1929   Duitsland cd 80
57 Sergei Rachmaninoff 1873 1943 Rusland cd 81
58 Sviatoslav Richter 1915 1997 OekraÔne cd 82, 83 en 84
59 Artur Rubinstein 1887 1982 Polen cd 85, 86 en 87
60 AndrŠs Schiff 1953   Hongarije cd 88
61 Artur Schnabel 1882 1951 Polen cd 89
62 Rudolf Perkins 1903 1991 Hongarije cd 90
63 Vladimir Sofronitsky 1901 1961 Rusland cd 91
64 Solomon 1902 1998 Groot-BrittanniŽ cd 92
65 Mark Taimonov (duo met Lyubov Bruk) 1926   OekraÔne cd 15
66 Rosalyn Tureck 1914   Verenigde Staten cd 93 en 94
67 Mitsuko Uchida 1948   Japan cd 95
68 Andrť Watts 1946   Duitsland cd 96
69 Alexis Weissenberg 1929   Bulgarije cd 97
70 Earl Wild 1915   Verenigde Staten cd 98
71 Maria Yudina 1899 1970 Rusland cd 99
72 Krystian Zimerman 1956   Polen cd 100

Excuse the Dutch(?),
Ed

Offline Hmoll

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Re: Great Pianists of the 20th Century CDs
Reply #4 on: December 21, 2003, 05:27:53 PM
Off the top of my head, undeserving place holders:

Kissin
Barenboim
Andre Previn
R. Lhevinne - her legacy is as a piano teacher, not a performer.

Omissions:

John Browning
Eugene Istomin
Sandor

I'm sure I'll think of more later.
"I am sitting in the smallest room of my house. I have your review before me. In a moment it will be behind me!" -- Max Reger

Offline allchopin

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Re: Great Pianists of the 20th Century CDs
Reply #5 on: December 21, 2003, 06:19:46 PM
To be omitted:
Quote
Kissin

Why

To be added:
Quote

John Browning

Absolutely- fabulous Chopin etudes.

I think that Tzimon Barto should definitely hold a place among the greats- but I'm sure that it is hard to search out every ounce of talent in the whole world.
A modern house without a flush toilet... uncanny.

Offline cziffra

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Re: Great Pianists of the 20th Century CDs
Reply #6 on: December 22, 2003, 11:20:26 AM
roger woodward should definitely be up there.  massive repertoire, stunning technique, masterly performances of debussy, its all there.  

definitely get rid of padarewski, for gods sake
What it all comes down to is that one does not play the piano with oneís fingers; one plays the piano with oneís mind.-  Glenn Gould

Offline findingnemo

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Re: Great Pianists of the 20th Century CDs
Reply #7 on: December 22, 2003, 11:31:04 AM
Quote
roger woodward should definitely be up there.  massive repertoire, stunning technique, masterly performances of debussy, its all there.  

definitely get rid of padarewski, for gods sake



then good ol' Leslie Howard should be up there too!
for his complete recording of LISZT! he's definitely a phenomenon!
fish are friends, not food :)

Offline eddie92099

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Re: Great Pianists of the 20th Century CDs
Reply #8 on: December 22, 2003, 11:35:13 AM
I don't think anyone should be in there purely for the size of their repertoire. I would have liked to see Art Tatum included,
Ed

Offline cziffra

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Re: Great Pianists of the 20th Century CDs
Reply #9 on: December 22, 2003, 12:06:09 PM
actually, that's true- art tatum was a legend
What it all comes down to is that one does not play the piano with oneís fingers; one plays the piano with oneís mind.-  Glenn Gould

Offline thracozaag

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Re: Great Pianists of the 20th Century CDs
Reply #10 on: December 22, 2003, 05:36:53 PM
Quote
Who are the glaring omissions and the undeserving place-holders?
Ed



 You've hit on a REAL sore point, which I've discussed with many pianists and pianophiles.  
 Glaring omissions:

Anton Kuerti
Moritz Rosenthal
Cyprien Katsaris
Roger Woodward
Art Tatum (good call Ed)
Oscar Peterson (Even at 80, the dude has better octaves than I)
Ernst Levy
Jose Iturbi




Why is Ingrid Haebler on there?  If you're going to have her, you sure as hell should include Annie Fischer and Lefebvre.  The Taimonov/Bruk pairing is very puzzling as well.
"We have to reach a certain level before we realize how small we are."--Georges Cziffra

Offline thracozaag

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Re: Great Pianists of the 20th Century CDs
Reply #11 on: December 22, 2003, 05:38:55 PM
Quote
It doesnt have Lazar Berman (Ive met him, thats why he should be up there ;D)
and how come Marc-Andre Hamelin,Ivo Pogorelich, Arcadi Volodos  are omitted? they are good ! 8)

I'd prefer them much more than the good ol'Paderewski
....I still don't understand how he achieved such a fame...  ;)


 Hamelin was too much of an up and comer to be included, (as well as Volodos).  Pogorelich refused to be on the series.
"We have to reach a certain level before we realize how small we are."--Georges Cziffra

Offline Hmoll

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Re: Great Pianists of the 20th Century CDs
Reply #12 on: December 22, 2003, 07:47:15 PM
Quote
Why [Kissin]?



He should be in the "Most Overrated Pianists of the 20th Century" collection.
"I am sitting in the smallest room of my house. I have your review before me. In a moment it will be behind me!" -- Max Reger

Offline comme_le_vent

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Re: Great Pianists of the 20th Century CDs
Reply #13 on: December 23, 2003, 02:10:55 AM
surely clayderman and maksim should have been included, surely!!!
https://www.chopinmusic.net/sdc/

Great artists aim for perfection, while knowing that perfection itself is impossible, it is the driving force for them to be the best they can be - MC Hammer

Offline cziffra

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Re: Great Pianists of the 20th Century CDs
Reply #14 on: December 23, 2003, 02:48:40 AM
you're treading on thin ice with a joke like that, my friend...  ;)

Quote
He should be in the "Most Overrated Pianists of the 20th Century" collection.


for gods sake why does everyone hate evgeny kissin?  he's bloody amazing
What it all comes down to is that one does not play the piano with oneís fingers; one plays the piano with oneís mind.-  Glenn Gould

Offline steinwaymodeld

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Re: Great Pianists of the 20th Century CDs
Reply #15 on: December 23, 2003, 05:17:06 AM
Quote
you're treading on thin ice with a joke like that, my friend...  ;)


for gods sake why does everyone hate evgeny kissin?  he's bloody amazing


he's been too sucessful, and too commerical, he never experienced enough to understand some of the music.

For example, his Rach3 is very very bad, no meaning behind it.

Only amazing technique is not enough to be ranked as 'greatest pianist'

He is lost i think, he is lost in his own image, he lacks personality in his music. And THAT makes him not a great artist.
he tried to impressed the audience, and played for the audience, instead of playing for himself, audience is not necessary for great music making. He should play for himself, search for the meaning for playing piano, and if the audience like it, that's good for them. But one should never do stuff for the audience.
Perfection itself is imperfection - Vladimir Horowitz

Offline thracozaag

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Re: Great Pianists of the 20th Century CDs
Reply #16 on: December 23, 2003, 05:11:56 PM
 Some more neglected pianists:

Sergio Fiorentino (fabulous liszt player)
Grigory Sokolov
Victor Merazhanov
Mark Hambourg
Witold Malcuzinski
Leonard Pennario
Leonard Shure
Raymond Lewenthal
Bashkirov
..and if you're going to have Graffman on there, you'd better include Lipkin, Lowenthal and Frank.
"We have to reach a certain level before we realize how small we are."--Georges Cziffra

Offline thracozaag

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Re: Great Pianists of the 20th Century CDs
Reply #17 on: December 23, 2003, 05:13:06 PM
Quote


he's been too sucessful, and too commerical, he never experienced enough to understand some of the music.

For example, his Rach3 is very very bad, no meaning behind it.

Only amazing technique is not enough to be ranked as 'greatest pianist'

He is lost i think, he is lost in his own image, he lacks personality in his music. And THAT makes him not a great artist.
he tried to impressed the audience, and played for the audience, instead of playing for himself, audience is not necessary for great music making. He should play for himself, search for the meaning for playing piano, and if the audience like it, that's good for them. But one should never do stuff for the audience.


 Listen to his amazing performance of the Chopin concertos done when he was 12 and bemoan what he could have developed into.
"We have to reach a certain level before we realize how small we are."--Georges Cziffra

Offline krenske

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Re: Great Pianists of the 20th Century CDs
Reply #18 on: December 26, 2003, 02:54:37 AM
Omissions:
I agree Kuerti should be there. Probably THE most amazing playing Ive heard live.

As far as Kissin goes, I'll only be complaining when I get on Carnegie Hall and nail the notes for all Rachmaninoff etudes IN THE FIRST HALF. And I probably won't be doing it with the same VIBE as Mr Kissin.

GREATEST PIANIST
I'd still like to vote in S.R. as the greatest pianist of 20C, and reccommend his recording of Carnivale.

I'd also like to nominate Mr Kapell as second place, and wish to apologise on behalf of Australian audiences for our lack of respect for this genius. I dont think you can argue this choice, when you look at what Horowitz (or anyone else for that matter) was doing at the age Kapell died (31). And if you disagree, based on his Great Pianist CD or the boxed set, you would be UNINFORMED!

"Horowitz died so Krenske could live."

Offline allchopin

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Re: Great Pianists of the 20th Century CDs
Reply #19 on: December 29, 2003, 12:58:39 AM
More omissions:
----

Jane Coop
Albert Frantz
Arcadi Volodos
Lillie Wollin Naness
Dmitirs Sgouros
A modern house without a flush toilet... uncanny.

Offline thracozaag

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Re: Great Pianists of the 20th Century CDs
Reply #20 on: December 29, 2003, 05:15:38 PM
Quote
More omissions:
----

Jane Coop
Albert Frantz
Arcadi Volodos
Lillie Wollin Naness
Dmitirs Sgouros



Volodos was too contemporary at the time they put the set together.
"We have to reach a certain level before we realize how small we are."--Georges Cziffra

Offline thracozaag

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Re: Great Pianists of the 20th Century CDs
Reply #21 on: December 29, 2003, 05:16:36 PM
Quote
To be omitted:
I think that Tzimon Barto should definitely hold a place among the greats- but I'm sure that it is hard to search out every ounce of talent in the whole world.



 You mean John Smith? ;D
"We have to reach a certain level before we realize how small we are."--Georges Cziffra

Offline allchopin

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Re: Great Pianists of the 20th Century CDs
Reply #22 on: December 29, 2003, 09:03:21 PM
If you're implying that Tzimon Barto is a nobody, you can feel free to Google him.  He has taken part in several orchestras around the world, and has recorded CD's (I have his Preludes + a few nocturnes).

How can you explain Dmitiris Sgouros' absence?
A modern house without a flush toilet... uncanny.

Offline bernhard

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Re: Great Pianists of the 20th Century CDs
Reply #23 on: December 29, 2003, 10:57:36 PM
More omissions:

Stephen Hough
Angela Hewitt
Victor Borge ;D
The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. (Hunter Thompson)

Offline bernhard

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Re: Great Pianists of the 20th Century CDs
Reply #24 on: December 29, 2003, 11:03:13 PM
Quote


†Pogorelich refused to be on the series.


This is really interesting. Did he give a reason? (Actually I didn't realise one had a choice!)
The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. (Hunter Thompson)

Offline IgnazPaderewski

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Re: Great Pianists of the 20th Century CDs
Reply #25 on: December 30, 2003, 12:56:10 AM
Why on earth does brendel get 3 volumes whereas someone like schnabel gets 1?!!!!!

Bad inclusions: Kissin, Haebler, Previn, Barenboim

Glaring ommissions: Howard, volodos, Sauer, Busoni

Offline Noah

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Re: Great Pianists of the 20th Century CDs
Reply #26 on: December 30, 2003, 01:26:36 AM
Another undeserved inclusion IMO is Kovacevich... I'm not convinced by Eschenbach as a pianist either, though he's a great conductor. And yes, the number of cds for each pianist is sometimes weird... come on, only 2 for Argerich ??   ::)
'Some musicians don't believe in God, but all believe in Bach'
M. Kagel

Offline eddie92099

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Re: Great Pianists of the 20th Century CDs
Reply #27 on: December 30, 2003, 02:18:32 AM
Quote

explain Dmitiris Sgouros' absence?


He's not one of the 72 greatest pianists of the century. Quite simple really.

Quote

Victor Borge ;D


;D

Quote
Barenboim


What have you got against him?
Ed

Offline thracozaag

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Re: Great Pianists of the 20th Century CDs
Reply #28 on: December 30, 2003, 05:26:36 PM
Quote
If you're implying that Tzimon Barto is a nobody, you can feel free to Google him.  He has taken part in several orchestras around the world, and has recorded CD's (I have his Preludes + a few nocturnes).

How can you explain Dmitiris Sgouros' absence?



 No, I'm implyling that Tzimon Barto is not his real name. ;D
"We have to reach a certain level before we realize how small we are."--Georges Cziffra
 

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