Who´s got the greatest double-note technique?

[sevencircles]

Who´s got the greatest double-note technique (or multinote) of all time in your opinion?

I heard about a russian pianist called Anna Yesipova that was supposed to have a stunning double-note technique.

[theodopolis]

Simon Barere's Schumann Toccata demonstrates this enough for me to give him first place.

Mind you Josef Lhevinne seemed to be the ultimate master of every single piano technique there is. Pity I can't find his recording of the Schumann at the moment.

Theodopolis

[sevencircles]

Mind you Josef Lhevinne seemed to be the ultimate master of every single piano technique there is. Pity I can't find his recording of the Schumann at the moment.

I have listened to almost all of his recordings but I don´t find him technically superior to the greatest players today (like Hamelin, Libetta etc.)

He was very clean yes, but the tempos weren´t superhuman like Barere´s for instance.

It´s very possible that he could play stuff that was a lot harder though.

[quantum]

Koji's video of the Chopin 3rds etude is pretty wild.  (The dare at Julliard one). 

Also I've heard rumors that Hamelin does the 4ths in Scriabin's 8th sonata with one hand. 

[stevie]

as much as i despise the man for being a complete dong, mei-ting sun is one of the very best.

the primary factors in having  great double note technique are 4/5 dexterity, and having efficient wrist employment.

lang lang is also a major contendor.

[mephisto]

as much as i despise the man for being a complete dong, mei-ting sun

Why do you despise him?

[stevie]

i dont like his attitude, and whenever i tried talking to him, he blocked me.

plus i think hes extremely pretentious, and likes to pretend he is a 'profound musician' when what hes best at is pure technique.

without his technique, he would be pretty much nothing, imo.

[jre58591]

Also I've heard rumors that Hamelin does the 4ths in Scriabin's 8th sonata with one hand. 

for a few parts later in the sonata, thats your only choice, which is to play the 4ths with one hand. so hamelin definitely gets my vots. just listen to his etude "ommagio a d scarlatti" or his "la danza" etude. the rossini la danza etude is a wicked etude for double notes (both hands), and hamelin nails it.

[sevencircles]

Hofmann is another name worth mentioning.

Have you heard the liverecording of the minutewaltz where he plays  thirds instead of singlenotes?

[m]

...whenever i tried talking to him, he blocked me...

In fact, it is very understandable.

[ronde_des_sylphes]

Cziffra's Fantasie Roumaine has some rather amusing double note stuff (in both hands simultaneously on occasion). Also, Richter's Feux Follets is impressive.

[stevie]

In fact, it is very understandable.

its ok for him to be intimidated, or threatened, but it just shows a lack of courage.

understandable? yes, honourable? no

[franz_]

Don't forget Argerich.

[bflatminor24]

Hamelin has the best technique I've ever heard.

Jonathan Powell is a contender, but the problem is, as formidable as his technique is, I have nothing to compare it to since my only recordings of his playing are all of Sorabji and nobody else has recorded Fantasia Ispanica or Sonata 4 who I know of....

So Hamelin takes the cake in terms of ANY technique.

[stevie]

Don't forget Argerich.

the way she plays octaves can be counted as DN technique? 

[brewtality]

Hamelin has the best technique I've ever heard.

This is true, although I'd add that for me it is because of his endurance. He is able to keep his pianism at such a high level for long periods of time (like in say the Alkan concerto vid). I think that the young (~40 yr old) Hofmann displayed a level of technical perfection maybe even greater than Hamelin, but he didn't record any large scale pieces due to the recording limitations. I think Barere, Friedman, Cziffra, Richter all had great double notes. It is hard to differentiate at the very peak of technique.

[sevencircles]

Any sound- or videoclips of the greatest double- or multinote performance out there?

Found La Danza with hamelin on Youtube actually.

[thracozaag]

its ok for him to be intimidated, or threatened, but it just shows a lack of courage.

koji

[demented cow]

Sergio Tiempo's video of the Chopin thirds etude (mixed with LH from 10/12), downloadable under
www.sergiotiempo.com
shows awesomely fast, clean and effortless thirds playing. I think it's up there with Lhevine's thirds etude.

P.S. Does anybody know of Schumann Toccata recordings which are faster than Barere's? It may be that most people don't like the piece played that fast, which may be why big technicians like Cziffra, Lhevine and Horowitz are all slower than Barere, but I would still be curious to hear some other fast versions. Barere's performance is a serious technical feat, but it's not perfect since he drops the tempo sometimes (e.g. in the double thirds scale passage).

[m]

its ok for him to be intimidated, or threatened, but it just shows a lack of courage.

Indeed, one has to have a lot of courage not to get intimidated or threatened by your logic and originality of conclusions.

[sevencircles]

Barere's performance is a serious technical feat, but it's not perfect since he drops the tempo sometimes (e.g. in the double thirds scale passage).

The tempo is dropped but their is an increase near the end.

I think he wanted to create some variation when he changed the tempo.

It´s one of Barere´s least musical and sloppiest recordings if you ask me.

He could do much better.

[stevie]

Indeed, one has to have a lot of courage not to get intimidated or threatened by your logic and originality of conclusions.

sarcastic much?

you will see the light some day, lets hope its someday soon 

[jre58591]

look at these great example of double notes by hamelin.

la danza

&search=hamelin%20rossini

prelude and fugue

&search=hamelin%20prelude

that should be enough evidence of his ownage on double notes.

[stevie]

true, but some question his raw 4/5 dex

[demented cow]

The tempo is dropped but their is an increase near the end.

I think he wanted to create some variation when he changed the tempo.

It´s one of Barere´s least musical and sloppiest recordings if you ask me.

He could do much better.

There is a tempo increase near the end (a) because that is requested in the score a page before the end, and (b) it's one of the easier passages in that piece.
I am a fan of Barere, but I doubt he dropped the tempo to create variation. He sometimes does an emergency rubato for a couple of bars when he hits a harder passage: apart from the double thirds passage in the Schumann Toccata, he does it in the double thirds passage in the DonJuan Fantasy and twice in the Chopin 4th ballade coda.
He's not the only one to cheat like that. Horowitz drops the tempo in the Waldstein Coda while playing the octaves (which he does staccato for some reason).

[nicco]

Horowitz drops the tempo in the Waldstein Coda while playing the octaves (which he does staccato for some reason).

Maybe he had a problem doing octave glissandos with those flat fingers of his 

[alejo_90]

i dont like his attitude, and whenever i tried talking to him, he blocked me.

plus i think hes extremely pretentious, and likes to pretend he is a 'profound musician' when what hes best at is pure technique.

without his technique, he would be pretty much nothing, imo.

I'm impressed about why don't you think the same about Lang Lang ??

Best
Alex

[thetrojanhorse]

I do.

[alejo_90]

I do.

I was asking Stevie...whatever

About repeated notes, I have Grigory Ginsburg's version of Liszt's HR 2, and in the part just after the evil scales on the Friska, he plays the normal notation: F-C#C#C#-F/F#-C#C#C#-F#,etc. (most of the pianists play the ossia for this part, wich is F-C#D#C#-F/F#-C#D#C#-F#,etc.), and he plays them at an stunning speed, the fastest I've heard, and the fingering is 5-432-1/5-432-1.

Best
Alex

[thetrojanhorse]

I was resonding to the original question that this entire thread is based upon.

whatever...yourself

[sinspawnammes]

What is a double-note, pray tell?

[bflatminor24]

I disagree with you about Mei-Ting Sun. This guy is REALLY good. I like his interpretations a lot, and I think he's extremely shrewd with his style. Very well done. I hate Lang Lang's interpretations for the most part, I think he plays like an idiot.

Evgeny Kissin has incredible technique, but he plays too romantically and it's really shallow sometimes.

Lastly, I want to say that I listened to a bunch of Koji Attwood's recordings on www.WhiteKeys.com, and I was so impressed. This really shows you what a brilliant musician can do with a B.Mus from Curtis and a D.MA from Juilliard! Quite incredible. His Scarlatti sonata in b minor, K.27 brings back memories from Michelangeli's precious video recording of it. It makes me all happy inside.

Thank you Koji - you're amazing and inspiring. And I love your style, and your choice of pieces - you chose Scarlatti, Ravel, Scriabin, Chopin, everything with depth...quite impressive. You have the technique AND the interpretation, and you'll make kick-ass recordings one day if you choose to play for a label. Congrats man....

~Max~

PS Sorry if this sounds ass-kissing but I was really touched by his recordings.

[jre58591]

Thank you Koji - you're amazing and inspiring. And I love your style, and your choice of pieces - you chose Scarlatti, Ravel, Scriabin, Chopin, everything with depth...quite impressive. You have the technique AND the interpretation, and you'll make kick-ass recordings one day if you choose to play for a label. Congrats man....

id like to add to this. koji, i was really impressed by your videos that you posted msot recently. the bortkiewicz, the scriabin, liadov, everything. the one where you played chopin 25/6 was really imrpessive to me. it wasnt the left hand octaves that you added in that surprised me, it was your thirds that blew me away. your interpretation and your technique were flawless. i hope you release a CD of some of your works soon. i cant wait.

[m]

I was asking Stevie...whatever

About repeated notes, I have Grigory Ginsburg's version of Liszt's HR 2, and in the part just after the evil scales on the Friska, he plays the normal notation: F-C#C#C#-F/F#-C#C#C#-F#,etc. (most of the pianists play the ossia for this part, wich is F-C#D#C#-F/F#-C#D#C#-F#,etc.), and he plays them at an stunning speed, the fastest I've heard, and the fingering is 5-432-1/5-432-1.

Best
Alex

Alex,

Really, there is no need to ask Stevie, or whoever else, to appreciate the mastery of Grigory Romanovitch Ginzburg.  That man was a POET of piano MASTERY. What always stoke me in his playing is not the speed, but the QUALITY. It is amazing to listen to a person who can afford to play 25/6 almost 20 seconds slower than any of modern piano competitions winners, and still to realize what kind of beauty stays behind it. It is amaizing to realize that actually he was the person who could play it faster than ANYBODY, but chosed not to, for sake of beauty of the music.

On the other hand, nobody could unleash the 6th Rhapsody like G. Ginzburg. The existing commercial recording does not do it justice. I heard some private recordings. To say the least, NOBODY, including Sziffra, was even close to that speed and evenness.

Interesting thing, having THAT kind of abilities, he rarely chosed to show them off. Maybe the reason he was the most interested in music. With his playing, it was however always that feeling he could do ANYTHING.

The mastery of piano playing is not in the actual speed, but in that feeling "how much behind it". Just listen to Joseff Lhevinne playng Blue Danub. Is it fast? Maybe, but who cares when there is that internal feeling of "Titan, easily throwing cliffs". And now tell me who out of modern pianists could do it. 

[stevie]

I'm impressed about why don't you think the same about Lang Lang ??

Best
Alex

langlang is a nice guy, and he isnt pretentious

plus hes ALOT more musically talented, so..

[brewtality]

langlang is a nice guy, and he isnt pretentious

plus hes ALOT more musically talented, so..

How about that interview where he talked about the shrimp? he seemed quite egotistical in that.

[stevie]

How about that interview where he talked about the shrimp? he seemed quite egotistical in that.

when youre a wikid pregnant cat, egotism is merely realism.

[Floristan]

I think this clip of Argerich is just amazing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcsRl_LIJHA&search=argerich%20scarlatti

[stevie]

tis rather wikid indeed, but those are repeated notes, not DNs

[Floristan]

yeah, I know, but I just love that Argerich clip...

[pianistimo]

dementedcow,  i listened to sergiotiempo, and was impressed with his speed but not necessarily his maturity.  pollini would be my choice.  not that he didn't have issues with technique vs. musicality - but as he got older, he 'melded' (like arrau) and seemed to be able to go off into the nether world of music without really thinking out loud of technique.  in this review, pollini is complimented for his double note technique in chopin's f minor pc.  funny, i did think pollini first and then look him up.  i had no idea this review was so recent. if it won't come up - google 'maurizio pollini and double notes' - scroll down 8 to 'concert: a requiem by kojiba'
https://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9401E7DF173BF93BA35752CA963948260

also, koji IS very musical and doesn't do the typical 'i've got technique' stunts  by going and sitting at the piano and showing off.  i always feel like he's thinking of the sounds first.

[pianorama]

Pardon my ignorance, but what exactly are double notes?

[alejo_90]

Pardon my ignorance, but what exactly are double notes?

To play a single note repeated times with different fingering ? I'm not actually sure. Ask sevencircles.

Best
Alex

[jre58591]

To play a single note repeated times with different fingering ? I'm not actually sure. Ask sevencircles.

thats jsut plain repeated notes. double notes is when you play thirds, sixths, or any other interval.

[sevencircles]

thats jsut plain repeated notes. double notes is when you play thirds, sixths, or any other interval.

Correct.

It´s easy to understand really, even for a nonmusician.

[alejo_90]

Sorry for my ignorance.

Alex