Piano Forum

Topic: Chopin tremolos (newby question)  (Read 3214 times)

Offline xinox

  • PS Silver Member
  • Jr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 57
Chopin tremolos (newby question)
on: June 24, 2006, 10:00:47 AM
Can you help me with playing tremolos?
I never played them(right way) and I dont know the tehnic. well, you can you help me with specified one..

Notturno Op.9 N.2



here is how those 2 bars supposed to sound (pay attention to tremolo):
9_2_tremolo_part.mp3 <>300kb

I dont understad this finger position 132. What means that?
this tremolo is F and G right? How can I play F and G with 132 position? And on other sheet it is 243 fp, so which one to use?
any tips are welcome..

Thanks!


Speed: 45/80 <>
Bars: 22/83 <>
Performance: 1/10 <>

One day I'll wake up and play my perfect Ocean etude. That day I'll be simply...happy

Offline kriskicksass

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 387
Re: Chopin tremolos (newby question)
Reply #1 on: June 24, 2006, 02:49:26 PM
First of all, what you are referring to is called a trill. A tremolo is when you rapidly alterate between two nonadjecent notes.

Secondly, the fingering 132 implies that you should strike the note first with the thumb to make an accent on the principal note then switch to trilling between 3 and 2. The 243 serves the same purpose, but I don't think that I'm alone in saying that 34 is the worst trill combination possible (the tendons between those two fingers are bound up and make independence difficult, if not painful). However, I feel obligated to tell you that Chopin generally wanted his trills started on the upper note instead of the principal note.  Whether you follow that or not is up to you.

Offline quantum

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 6260
Re: Chopin tremolos (newby question)
Reply #2 on: June 24, 2006, 03:31:40 PM
However, I feel obligated to tell you that Chopin generally wanted his trills started on the upper note instead of the principal note.  Whether you follow that or not is up to you.

However, a majority of performers today like to play Chopin trills starting on the main note.
Made a Liszt. Need new Handel's for Soler panel & Alkan foil. Will Faure Stein on the way to pick up Mendels' sohn. Josquin get Wolfgangs Schu with Clara. Gone Chopin, I'll be Bach

Offline xinox

  • PS Silver Member
  • Jr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 57
Re: Chopin tremolos (newby question)
Reply #3 on: June 25, 2006, 10:11:03 AM
First of all, what you are referring to is called a trill. A tremolo is when you rapidly alterate between two nonadjecent notes.

Shame on me...  ::)

Secondly, the fingering 132 implies that you should strike the note first with the thumb to make an accent on the principal note then switch to trilling between 3 and 2. The 243 serves the same purpose, but I don't think that I'm alone in saying that 34 is the worst trill combination possible (the tendons between those two fingers are bound up and make independence difficult, if not painful). However, I feel obligated to tell you that Chopin generally wanted his trills started on the upper note instead of the principal note.  Whether you follow that or not is up to you.

Thanks,
So, in this case I hit F note and start trill again with F ?


Speed: 45/80 <>
Bars: 22/83 <>
Performance: 1/10 <>

One day I'll wake up and play my perfect Ocean etude. That day I'll be simply...happy

Offline stevehopwood

  • PS Silver Member
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 212
Re: Chopin tremolos (newby question)
Reply #4 on: June 25, 2006, 11:35:07 AM
So, in this case I hit F note and start trill again with F ?

No, just start the trill on the F.

By the by, the fingering reflects the fact that you are most likely to play the previous high Bb with your 4th finger, with 3 on the Ab & 2 on the G. As kriskickass says, you want to avoied trilling with 3-4, so the suggested fingering is a neat way of working round to a 2-3 smoothly and easily.

If you want to make this trill sound really musical, then you give it a beginning, a middle and an end.

You start it more below top speed and accelerate through the first quaver, trill the middle quaver up do speed, then slow the trill on the final quaver, so that the turn fits neatly on the end.

I have attached an example. Sorry it isn't my best playing, but I played it without warming up.

Steve  :D
Piano teacher, accompanist and soloist for over 30 years - all of them fantastic.
www.hopwood3.freeserve.co.uk

Offline xinox

  • PS Silver Member
  • Jr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 57
Re: Chopin tremolos (newby question)
Reply #5 on: June 25, 2006, 12:24:18 PM
No, just start the trill on the F.

By the by, the fingering reflects the fact that you are most likely to play the previous high Bb with your 4th finger, with 3 on the Ab & 2 on the G. As kriskickass says, you want to avoied trilling with 3-4, so the suggested fingering is a neat way of working round to a 2-3 smoothly and easily.

Finally i understand:)..  this 1 from 132 is only because previous note is with 2nd finger so you use 1 cause you dont want to make jump..


If you want to make this trill sound really musical, then you give it a beginning, a middle and an end.

You start it more below top speed and accelerate through the first quaver, trill the middle quaver up do speed, then slow the trill on the final quaver, so that the turn fits neatly on the end.

I have attached an example. Sorry it isn't my best playing, but I played it without warming up.

Thanks for musical advice, and example too.. I'll try to play it that way...


Speed: 45/80 <>
Bars: 22/83 <>
Performance: 1/10 <>

One day I'll wake up and play my perfect Ocean etude. That day I'll be simply...happy

Offline phil13

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1395
Re: Chopin tremolos (newby question)
Reply #6 on: June 25, 2006, 02:29:47 PM
I agree with everything Steve said.

BTW, how is it that you're learning Chopin's Ocean etude before learning how to properly play a trill?

Phil

Offline xinox

  • PS Silver Member
  • Jr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 57
Re: Chopin tremolos (newby question)
Reply #7 on: June 25, 2006, 04:00:53 PM

BTW, how is it that you're learning Chopin's Ocean etude before learning how to properly play a trill?


Well, I never had teacher (except my sister who is in high school of piano) so I have no "classic" piano knowledge and "normal" order of learned skills..
I play what I like, and learn that properly ( I collect all materials of practicing, tips, advices, itc for specified composition)
this is my first trill ever and I was just little confused with fp (actually I knew how to play it, but wasnt sure)

I dont accept when someone said "you are not ready for Ocean etude" or something like that..
I am ready and I am practicing it properly..
Why cant I learn arrpegios before trills or tremolos?
Others ( qualified ones too) said that I have a "touch" for playing piano and making music so this is not problem...
and in 2months of practiceing I can get almost full speed (and properly playing) with RH... (I dont practice it a lot cause I can't)
So I think in a year (or little longer) I'll "master" it..


Speed: 45/80 <>
Bars: 22/83 <>
Performance: 1/10 <>

One day I'll wake up and play my perfect Ocean etude. That day I'll be simply...happy
For more information about this topic, click search below!
 

Logo light pianostreet.com - the website for classical pianists, piano teachers, students and piano music enthusiasts.

Subscribe for unlimited access

Sign up

Follow us

Piano Street Digicert