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[leemay001]

I started Chopin's Prelude #20 in Cminor yesterday and I finished the piece today. Don't get me wrong though, I'm not finished with the piece, I'm still going to practise it repeatedly until I can never make a mistake. But I'm looking for a piece, about the same difficulty, to learn next. I have a few of Chopin's preludes on sheet right now and I quite like #4. I went through it just briefly and it seems basic enough although it does have it's difficult spot. Well, any suggestions?
Thanks,
  ~Lee~

[eddie92099]

Now you have learnt the theme, why not try Rachmaninov's Variations on a theme of Chopin? Just joking. The Chopin preludes are great pieces. I personally don't particularly like number four though. An easy suggestion is number seven, while number fifteen would be more of a challenge. Good luck and don't try number sixteen yet!
Ed

[leemay001]

Good luck and don't try number sixteen yet!
Ed

Hahaha, I'm listening to #16 now, I really don't expect to play this well for a while although I will get there. And #8... sheesh. I just listened to #7 again, it seems easy, almost too easy, but I best not under-estimate eh. Well, I like #9 too although it has it's tricky spots as they always do. I like #4 myself so No's. 4, 7 and 9. I'll try to get at least 1 of them done before Xmas... 4 days. I still need to practise #20 during that time too. I should get one done though. Ok well, wish me luck.
Thanks,
  ~Lee~

Ps. about mental preperation, apart from playing the piece in your head, what type of "mental preperation" do you do? And what is the most effective in your oppinion?   Thanks again...

[eddie92099]

Hahaha, I'm listening to #16 now

Argerich?
Ed

[bernhard]

about mental preperation, apart from playing the piece in your head, what type of "mental preperation" do you do? And what is the most effective in your oppinion?   Thanks again...

Great question. Start a new topic on this one, I am sure it will get lots of replies.

[leemay001]

Great question. Start a new topic on this one, I am sure it will get lots of replies.

Hmmm maybe I should. And Eddie, I thought you ment Chopin's prelude #16, sorry  

[eddie92099]

I did mean Chopin's prelude number 16,
Ed

[leemay001]

I did mean Chopin's prelude number 16,
Ed

Oh ok, then I dunno what Argerich is. I'm only new so resist scolding me please  

[eddie92099]

Oh ok, then I dunno what Argerich is. I'm only new so resist scolding me please  

I'm going to e-shoot you,
Ed

[Noah]

Oh ok, then I dunno what Argerich is.

How do you survive ?

[bernhard]

Overrated Argentinian pianist . Here is a review:

“She sounds quirky and makes me feel very uncomfortable. I don't like the way the melodic lines wobble. When she plays fast, she plays the notes accurately, but she does not press the keys to the bottom. She attacks the keys fast and releases them even faster, and the unstable, hollow sound that results irritates this listener. And she is often too brilliant. And she lacks patience, in the sense that she gets to the climax way too early in the piece, instead of doing a more gradual build-up. As a result, her individual notes may sound exciting and spirited, but the piece taken as a whole sounds like a disorganized mess. She does not play with a plot and a structure”

Read the full review at:

https://www.geocities.com/Vienna/Strasse/8618/nontop10_pianists.html

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[eddie92099]

Clearly this man is a fool. I think someone should slip him a recording of the Liszt sonata, of which a particular review states as follows (it should be noted that this is a far more typical reaction to Argerich's playing):

I find her account of the Liszt sonata stunning at all levels. Obviously, her hands have mastered the notes. However, her ability to find the music in all the notes amazes me. I should say that I've never particularly liked the Liszt sonata, or any 19th-century sonata after Schubert. The Liszt in particular has always seemed to me a compendium of cliches and over-reliance on diminished triads and sequence. I've heard Horowitz's EMI recording, Brendel, and Arau. I've not heard my two all-time favorite Lisztians, Cziffra and Howard, in this particular work and, in fact, don't know whether recorded performances exist. Schwann is silent.

The Liszt bears as much resemblance to classical sonata form as a platypus does to a duck. The trick for the pianist is to overcome the obviously sectional nature of the work and make the listener forget that each section is more than a rush to another climax - a tall order, since that's practically Liszt's entire rhetorical strategy. Under hands only vaguely connected to the brain, the piece comes off as a garage sale of spare parts. Argerich shows you how Liszt builds an impressive structure from two or three little bits, not even full-fledged themes, and how the composer's incredible sonic imagination (allied, I'm sure, to his miraculous technique) inventively transforms these bits into new themes, rhythms, and textures. One reads about this in essays on the subject, but Argerich is the first to show this in action. I never realized to what extent the opening downward run in the bass generated the thematic transformations before. It leads to an all-important "repeated note" gesture (4 repeated notes, a little downward fillip, and an upward leap, followed by a chromatic descent of 2 notes), which in turn leads to an important lyrical idea, varied just enough in rhythm and tempo to disguise its parentage. At other points, Liszt breaks up the idea among widely disparate registers. "Repeated note" even gets a fugal treatment. Stuff like this happens throughout the sonata. To Argerich's immense credit, she never loses the thread or the listener.

However, not everyone listens for this kind of thing, and if the performance consisted of only this, a computer-generated account would suffice. Argerich brings even more, leaving aside the sheer physical excitement of her playing. Listening to the disc a number of times, I've discovered that she routinely builds incredibly long spans of music. She not only knows how to shade a phrase through sensitive, momentary builds and releases, she carries this method over longer spans. She knows precisely not only where the high point of a phrase or a section lies, but of an entire piece, even one this long. Other great pianists do this as well. In fact, this for me practically defines a great pianist. The buildup of volume comes more easily than the release, because it's a primary device of increasing tension and excitement, just as getting faster is. Unfortunately, a player might reach his peak before the music. This occasionally happened to Bernstein, particularly in Richard Strauss. He needed to get louder, but had already shot his dynamic wad, so to speak. The release is much harder: a player often just loses focus and the piece momentarily dies. Argerich always has someplace to go, up or down, and reaching the valley is just as urgent as attaining the summit. The rapid octaves leading to the long, "dying fall" of the coda demonstrate this clearly.

Magnificent.
Steve Schwartz

And to think, she was only nineteen when she recorded it,
Ed

[leemay001]

Wow, thanks for the knowledge boost. I know I shocked you all a little when I said that but I can't be the ONLY newbie who didn't know. Well maybe, I don't know much about music history. Maybe I should post a topic to learn a little. Yes good idea
Thanks,
  ~Lee~

[rvPianist]

About prelude #16 by Chopin:

Ed made a connection b/w Argerich and #16, and for obvious reasons - she's has probably played it faster than any other pianist, to date. But, here's a name that's sometimes overlooked, when it comes to technical dazzle:

Evgeny Kissin.

Well, at least as far as prelude #16 is concerned, because of this: First, the chords can't really be included in this calculation, because of the interpretation of the fermata. So...the 16th notes beginning from f, to the final tonic chord, both Argerich AND Kissin clock: 53 seconds.

Kissin's performance seems alot more controlled to me, which might suggest that he could play it faster in a non-recording setting. Argerich however sounds frenetic at times, and the chords spasmodic almost...and gives me the impression that she IS playing it at maximum speed. But wwoooww...her dynamics; no way Kissin matches her range or her control of dynamics...I couldn't imagine those wonderful hands and fingers...now you see them, now you don't (for 53 seconds anyway).

[rvPianist]

Oh and incidently...in 53 seconds, I can play the first page or so...hehhee  

[eddie92099]

Kissin's performance seems alot more controlled to me, which might suggest that he could play it faster in a non-recording setting. Argerich however sounds frenetic at times, and the chords spasmodic almost...and gives me the impression that she IS playing it at maximum speed.

I think the difference is Argerich knows how to interpret Presto con fuoco and Kissin doesn't,
Ed

[cziffra]

i now understand why free speech can be a bad thing thanks to that idiot Steve Schwartz

[eddie92099]

What are you talking about? Argerich's Liszt sonata is the best piano playing ever recorded,
Ed

[bernhard]

"Clearly this man is a fool. (Ed)"

"(...) idiot Steve Schwartz  (Cziffra)"

Clearly there is no unanimity amongst the critics or amongst the critics' critics.

"it should be noted that this is a far more typical reaction to Argerich's playing" (Ed)

I guess 100 000 lemmings cannot be wrong...

"And to think, she was only nineteen when she recorded it" (Ed)

And to think that right after that she considered giving up the piano to become a secretary. Oh! the loss to the corporate world!

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[BoliverAllmon]

Don't feel bad, until just recently I hadn't ever heard of argerich either. In fact, the only recording I have is of the prelude #16, which ed was kind enough to give me. I would have to listen to all of the Argerich preludes to compare them to the Kissin, but I find it hard to believe that anyone could be so much greater that Kissin.

boliver

[djbrak]

Prelude No4 in Em was the first prelude I started, should be easy for you if you got #20 down already.  No.7 should be even easier.

[leemay001]

Don't feel bad, until just recently I hadn't ever heard of argerich either.

Hehe, I'm glad I'm not the only one then. I hope Ed had enough e-bullets  
  ~Lee~

[leemay001]

Prelude No4 in Em was the first prelude I started, should be easy for you if you got #20 down already.  No.7 should be even easier.

Yeah I almost finished #4 but I'm learning Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata (1st movement) to finish the rest off. And #7 is just too easy that it bores me.
  ~Lee~

[Rach3]

What about #2? It is a very revolutionary and innovative (just plain wierd) piece which avoids a tonal center and plays tricks on the ear. It's quite easy and sounds really "modern" and gloomy, or something. It's rather underappreciated. There is also the chorale-like E major, and the op. 45 C#-minor.

[leemay001]

I don't know if I've heard #2. Do you know a MIDI site that I can all of them? I found some sites but they never have a complete list of the preludes, or at least close to. Thanks,
  ~Lee~

[BoliverAllmon]

www.classicalarchives.net

[leemay001]

Heh, thank Boliver. Quick response  
  ~Lee~

[leemay001]

Ah it seems I did have #2 but it was saved as something else...
  ~Lee~