Etude-Tableau in G minor - hand issues

[nolan]

Hello,
I would love to learn this beautiful etude by Rachmaninoff (Op. 33 No. 7). I'm trying to figure out how the hand crossing is notated in my music. I understand that "m.d." means play with the right and "m.s." means play with the left, but I'm not sure how much to play with either hand.

In the excerpt I have attached, the melody begins with four quarter notes and a half note with the hands alternating with each note.

Should the right hand play the three 16th notes on beat 2 (Eb Eb C)?
On beat 3 of that measure, does the left hand also play the D notated on the upper staff?
On beat 4, does the right hand also play the C notated on the lower staff?

In the next 2 measures, I assume the notes are distributed right hand/left hand by upper/lower staff, correct?

I know this is Rachmaninoff, so I may very well be in over my head, but it is always something to atleast look at .

Thanks,
Nolan

[jlh]

Should the right hand play the three 16th notes on beat 2 (Eb Eb C)?

That's how I'd do it.

On beat 3 of that measure, does the left hand also play the D notated on the upper staff?
On beat 4, does the right hand also play the C notated on the lower staff?
In the next 2 measures, I assume the notes are distributed right hand/left hand by upper/lower staff, correct?

Yes for all 3 questions; however, in the end it's what's most comfortable for you that matters. Frequently, whatever is physically the most practical will be artistically more effective in terms of fingering.

I know this is Rachmaninoff, so I may very well be in over my head, but it is always something to at least look at .

Take a look at the 3rd page...  You will have more problems there and near the end than you do here.  It's a beautiful etude and I almost included it in my recital rep for next semester (had to cut a few things due to time, though).

[nolan]

Thank you for the reply.

I've been playing with different fingerings and I think those are the best way for me to go. I'm really excited to work on this! Very beautiful, but for some reason I passed over it on my first listen to the Etudes-Tableau.

[nanabush]

I played this etude a few years ago, and I had some trouble with the constant clef changes with a few cases of crossing hands and some large leaps in the left hand. This study has a lot of inner voices which need to be brought out while the outer notes add atmosphere.  As jlh said, do you what you find most comfortable, but be sure that you keep the legato throughout, and bring out the inner notes, so Bb Ab G F# (in the first measure).  Once you get used to the basics, the rest comes really easily, except for the third page.  On this page you have the bass notes to bring out, and while holding these, there are running notes (much faster than the other pages) which still have to be legato and not overpower the the notes needed to be brought out.  The third page is essentially the same exercise, but is the most dfficult part of the piece.

[houseofblackleaves]

This is probobly Rachmaninoffs most beautiful etude...

And yes, the constant hand changes are a pain, and when you look at the scoring it does look really.... weird.

It will feel natural when you get the hang of it though.

[nolan]

Yes, it is coming along really nicely. I've basically got the first page and top of the second memorized. Once I picked apart the hand issues, it really works well under the fingers.

Does anyone have any tips on making the descending chords legato? I can't scan in the music at the moment, but I'm talking about the second page (in my edition, sorry if it's different), starting two measures before the 2/4 measure running two measures after. Any good legato fingerings for the right hand?

Also, I've been picking at the veloce section on the third page. I've got my right hand comfortable, but my left is having trouble finding a fingering that is efficient enough to actually play at the veloce tempo. Any advice?

The last page looks fine, nice few measures of recap. Maybe a little tricky two measures five from the end, but I think I'll get it.

Thanks for the help guys!

[lagin]

When I played it, I didn't worry about keeping the left hand legato on the third page with that descending line of accented notes.  For each accented note I allowed my hand to jump positions which gave it more of a bang and helped bring it out. 

On those chords on the second page just do the best you can.  Depending on your hand size, everyone will take a different approach fingering wise.  Most importantly aim for the top notes to be legato even if the rest aren't always.  Sometimes this is not possible and you will have to use the pedal.  I think that I re-adjusted my hand after each tie, so I tried to keep the last 3 sixteenth notes of each bar and leading from them into the next bar legato, but after the tied quarter note I would move my hand.

Here are the fingerings in my edition, bar.19 none given.  Bar. 20, Beat one none given, beat 2 - second 16th note (the one after the tie) 531 then 421 then 521 then back to 421 on beat 3.  Beat 4 second 16th note again goes 531 ( see they move their hand after the tied notes, too) followed by 421 then 31.

Bar. 21 beat one 421 held through tie then changes after tie on the second 16th note of beat 2 to 542 then 531 then 42. 

Bar. 22 starts with 321 then on beat 3, 2nd 16th it is 421 then 531 then 421 then 531 on beat 4 followed by 421 then 531 then 421.

Bar. 23 starts with 321 and then fingering is not given until the last 16th note of beat 3 which is also 321 (so you'll have to figure out what works for you on the 2nd and 3rd 16th notes of that beat).  Beat 4 continues after beat 3 with a 421 then 53 then 31 then 42 and then in the next bar it begins with 51. 

For page 3, left hand accented notes only:  Bar 26 -- 4 4 5 5
Bar. 27 -- 5 5 5 (last F# is not given a finger number, so do whatever works)
Bar. 28 -- Eb not given one, then on the D they have 5, but I used 3 (that way you can go 345, and 345 again with the last "5" being the F# of Bar 29. 
Bar 29 continues then after 5 with 5 again, then 3, and the D isn't labled, but I think I might have used 3 again on it. 

On the last page in abr 41, I personally found it easier to just take the G, Eb and C that are the quarter notes of beats 2, 3 and 4 with the thumb of my right hand so that I could hold them for their full value.  You could possibly pedal them to get them to keep full value too, but I just choose to learn it the other way instead. 

Bar 43 - I never did play that run at the speed of the recordings and it sounded fine, just go as slow as you need to.  Better to have it a bit on the slow side than sloppy, especially since it's your grand finale. 

Also, consider using the sostenuto (middle) pedal if you have it for those whole notes at the beginning of bars 30 and 32.  Grab those chords with just the middle pedal, then use the damper on the next 16th or 8th note and get rid of it by the rest at the end of the bar, but keep the middle pedal down, so you lose the run in time for that rest, but keep the growl of the original whole note chords. 
Make sure that you put the middle pedal down first because if your damper pedal is lifting the dampers off all the keys when you use the sostenuto pedal, the sostenuto pedal will then sustain everything just like a second damper pedal instead of just the chord.  You can only have the dampers lifted from the exact strings you want when that middle pedal goes down so also make sure that ALL 4 notes of the chord at the beginning of bar 32 have been played before you put it down or else you will just catch the first ones.  It's a bit tricky to get the timing of the pedals just right.  I usually put my foot over the middle pedal to get ready to press it during the ritard at the end of bar 29.  That saves time trying to "aim" your foot during bar 30. 

If you don't have a sostenuto pedal, then I'd just pedal through the rest at the end of the bar, personally, maybe flutter pedal a bit and taper the sound off during it, then have a proper rest in the following bar. 

Hope this all made sense!

[nolan]

Thank you for your reply! It makes so much sense. A lot of what you said I have been doing, so I'm glad that I haven't been way off. Your tips are going to help me a lot!

Thanks again,
Nolan

[lagin]

Glad it made sense

[moi_not_toi]

Play it every way that you can and see what's best for you.