London - Royal Academy or Royal College?

[eddie92099]

I have been accepted to both, but am unsure which to choose. Can anyone help me?
Ed

[dinosaurtales]

I am soo-o-o-o-o  jealous I can't stand it!  

I don't know how much help I'll be, but I'll try.  What can you tell me about each?  Like who you'll study with, special things one school might have that you want, etc etc.  What degree are you shooting for?

[eddie92099]

Here is a list of the staff at each:

Royal Academy:

Prof. Christopher Elton FRAM (Dederich Professor of Piano)
Arnaldo Cohen
Graeme Humphrey ARAM
Diana Ketler
Piers Lane BMus, Hon RAM
Vanessa Latarche FTCL, Hon ARAM, ARCM
Joanna MacGregor FRAM
Prof. Hamish Milne FRAM
Martin Roscoe Hon ARAM
Tanya Sarkissova Grad (Moscow State Cons.), Grad (Kiev State Cons.), Hon ARAM
Aaron Shorr ARAM
Colin Stone
Patsy Toh ARAM, 1e Prix Paris

Royal College:

Nelly Akopian-Tamarina
Susie Allan BA (Hons) (Oxon), MA (Hons) (Oxon)
Andrew Ball BA, ARCM
John Barstow FRCM
Charles Beale MA(Cantab.), PhD, LGSM, PGCE, Jazz piano
John Blakely BA, HonRCM, ARAM, ARCO
John Byrne Dip Moscow Conservatoire, ARCM, ARAM, DipRAM, GRNCM, PPRNCM
Nigel Clayton BMus, ARCM
Oliver Davies FRCM, HonARAM
Gordon Fergus-Thompson GRSM, ARMCM
Niel Immelman ARCM, LRAM, FRCM
Julian Jacobson MA, GRSM, ARCM
Kevin Kenner BMus, MMus, Artist Diploma, Konzertexam
Simon Nicholls GRSM, ARCM, LRAM
Ruth Nye Perf.Dip.Melbourne
Yonty Solomon BMus, FRCM
Kathron Sturrock ARCM
David Ward ARCM, LRAM

Both very impressive lists. The course is very similar too (with one major difference that I am concerned with - the technical exercise exam at the College is rather off putting). The facilities are ever so slightly better at the College but this is only because it is bigger than the Academy (therefore do the Academy take a higher calibre of student?). The Academy also has links with nearby King's College London (a top uninversity) where additional courses can be undertaken. Locations are both very good and accomodation is equal. Alumni lists are also equally impressive (Elton John went to the Academy while Barry Manilow went to the College!). The Academy is top in the country academically whereas the College is fourth I think. However, I know the College more since I was at the Junior Department there. This is a dilemna, but a nice one  ,
Ed

[IgnazPaderewski]

the RAM is definitely the one to go to. at RCM, the only really impressive teacher is Andy Ball - but he is tremendously busy so may not have space for another student. But at Academy there are far more (apparently) good teachers, such as Piers Lane, Hamish Milne, Martin Roscoe and Tanya Sarkssova, plus Colin Stone is supposed to be pretty good.  If you like Arrau especially, go to Ruth Nye at the college, as she is a pupil of his and is strongly biased towards his way of playing (she can teach it too, I was taught by her for 4 years but was not too fond of the "arm-weight" principle. Plus Academy has more money.... but the heads of keyboard are very different, Andrew is a very nice man, but (by all acounts) Chris Elton is a prick.

[eddie92099]

Plus Academy has more money.... but the heads of keyboard are very different, Andrew is a very nice man, but (by all acounts) Chris Elton is a prick.

I don't want to say a word - he might be reading! Were you at the College Ignaz? I need to decide by the end of January so I am just trying to find out as much as I can...
Ed

[IgnazPaderewski]

No, I have 1 year and a half to go before I can apply to undergraduate courses anywhere. But I do know loads of people at the college and academy, so I have a fair idea of what I want to do (people have been telling me since I was 9 that I should go to Hamish Milne, and Sarkissova is a possibility). but you get some sort of picture anyway, you can tell for instance that Julian Jacobson is no pianist from watching the beginning of Art of Piano. I don't know you, so I can't really comment, but unless you are an ardent contemporary music specialist, I would have thought there are many better teachers out there than Joanna Macgregor. I have never had a lesson from her, so I don't really know, but I have heard nothing in her favour as a teacher down the grapevine.

By the way do you know freddy kempff?

[IgnazPaderewski]

Also, love your program for auditions - which version of Horowitz Carmen do you play? I play the 1968, its one of the best pieces for show as it is fairly simple but sounds impossible. wonderful piece also, I think horowitzs original compositional material is fantastic. I have the music (in PDF) for all the horowitz transcriptions, if your inetersted.

[eddie92099]

you can tell for instance that Julian Jacobson is no pianist from watching the beginning of Art of Piano.

Well you can tell he can't play Liszt very well.

I don't know you, so I can't really comment, but unless you are an ardent contemporary music specialist, I would have thought there are many better teachers out there than Joanna Macgregor. I have never had a lesson from her, so I don't really know, but I have heard nothing in her favour as a teacher down the grapevine.

But she's got cool dreadlocks...
I think I will e-mail Chris Elton and ask him to suggest someone for me to have a consultation with.

By the way do you know freddy kempff?  

I have not met him yet but know someone who is very close to him, and I know that he had good things to say about Hamish Milne.

Also, love your program for auditions - which version of Horowitz Carmen do you play? I play the 1968, its one of the best pieces for show as it is fairly simple but sounds impossible. wonderful piece also, I think horowitzs original compositional material is fantastic. I have the music (in PDF) for all the horowitz transcriptions, if your inetersted.

The 1968. I am interested in your other Horowitz transcriptions (I have the Stars and Stripes already). Do you use MSN messenger?
Ed

[Noah]

The College seems to be slightly harder to get in, and the area (South Ken) is nicer than at the Academy too. However "pianistically" speaking I would go for the Academy and Joanna MacGregor's cool dreadlocks.

[eddie92099]

The College seems to be slightly harder to get in

I'm not sure that is the case. The Academy has a smaller intake, and this year the standard at the Academy's auditions was "extremely high" (Colin Stone). I am veering towards the dreadlocks at the moment. Joanna Macgregor's whole outlook seems so refreshing (https://www.soundcircus.com/interview/interview.htm),
Ed

[sharky]

Does anyone know if there are courses of the conservatory in London?

[eddie92099]

There are five conservatories in London - the Royal Academy of Music, the Royal College of Music, the Guildhall School of Music and Drama, Trinity College of Music and the London College of Music. They all offer courses... :-/,
Ed

[Dave_2004_G]

Ed - out of interest, do you know anything about the different standards of each of the colleges?   As in is one renowned for higher standards or are they all similar?

Dave

[eddie92099]

Although this is not definitive, I would say the Royal Academy and the Royal College are the best two, followed closely by the Guildhall (you just have to look at the teaching staff and the alumni to ascertain this hierarchy). Trinity is in the next rank, and the London College is infinitely inferior (apologies to anyone connected with it!),
Ed

[piano88]

RCM all the way

[pianowelsh]

At the end of the day there as good as you make them! Both the Royal College and Royal Academy are world class institutions and offer lots of oppertunities. But whether the college is good or not its the teacher that makes or breaks the experience and your rel with your HOD. the New Undergrad at RAM looks more academically rigerous so would be my choice if I had to do over again. I know someone who studies with Chris and Andrew and they came to the same conclusions re character. I also know two people just finished at RAM masters progs.Both studied with extremely well regarded teachers but because of all their teachers concert commitments had only two lessons on their final recital programes, which left them perirlously close to the edge and looking for top-ups. This story is one which equally occurs in Trinity College (certain teachers) where I also have contacts and indeed possibly at the RCM and Guildhall. I know a teacher at the LCM and they would strongly dispute allegations that it is not a forefront institution. It does however have an emerging rather than established reputation and has a strong contemporary music emphasis but if you get the teacher I know you will get circa 5hrs of lessons per week (he dosen't wear a watch and is extremely enthusiastic!). WELL Done on your auditions success. It's no mean feat to be offered places at these schools - I wish you every success in your studies wherever you go!

[ruthies_groupies]

OMG are you serious. The College is WAY better than the Academy. I can't believe we're even having this discussion. Chris Elton is THE biggest jerk in history!!!!!!! He needs to GET OUT OF HERE!!!!!!!!!
Ruth Nye is a GOD. OMG she's like totally THE GREATEST!!!!!!! All other teachers bow down to her. She is my inspiration and the reason I get out of bed in the morning.
So there!
p.s. Arm weigh is good. Without it you'd get wanker's cramp.

[DarkWind]

RCM all the way

Why the hell did you post in a year old thread? Ed doesn't even visit this forum anymore. He has already chosen a college, heck, I'm pretty sure he's already in it!

[piano88]

erm... well dark wind, I dont give a s**t, its a relevant topic for all those choosing colleges now in the future. Just cos 'ed' has made his mind up.....what are you, his lover??
Geez, lighten up you miserable old sod

[Pianista2]

Having studied piano at RAM, can confirm everything bad said about Elton. The other profs are generally nice people. The big question is, can Elton actually teach? He almost always chooses pre-formed pianists who are already fantastic, recruiting them from top teachers around the world. Other teachers do the hard work, and he claims the success. Is he or isn't he a charlatan?

Aspiring academy pianists should try to study with Hamish Milne, or better, avoid the politics and go to RCM or Guildhall. Academy piano department will remain dodgy until Elton retires.

[BoliverAllmon]

Why the hell did you post in a year old thread? Ed doesn't even visit this forum anymore. He has already chosen a college, heck, I'm pretty sure he's already in it!

lighten up man.

[tds]

i had a masterclass with elton many years ago. as far as i remember, he was very good.

[thomj]

I realise the topic's probably somewhat dormant now, with all the 2005 auditions over etc.. but i just thought i'd say that i was very impressed with the RCM and have decided to go there for undergrad 05. I was also accepted at the RAM, Trinity and Guildhall but was slightly worried about the apparent politics, and was carefully steered away from them. A consultation lesson with Ruth Nye and a masterclass with Andrew Ball swayed me 200% towards to College though... so it wasn't really difficult in the end...

[russda_man]

I have been accepted to both, but am unsure which to choose. Can anyone help me?
Ed

Hi Ed. I hope you're still on here! I'm going for private tuition in London before I continue with a Masters degree, with the best teacher I can find, but also someone I can trust. Do you have any recommendations? I have been thinking about going to Dina Parakhina. Do you know anything about her? I've heard Andrew Ball is good, and I met him when I auditioned years ago at the college. A true gentleman!

Cheers

[thalbergmad]

Royal Academy has the better library

[ara9100]

I agree 100% with Thal.

And it is situated in a nicer place. Not that, that has anything to do with the teaching.

[mikey6]

And it is situated in a nicer place. Not that, that has anything to do with the teaching.

Are you serious?  You prefer a noisy, busy road to Hyde Park and Albert Hall?   

[richard black]

The front entrance of the RAM is hardly appealing, but the place backs right on to the nicest corner of Regents Park and is only across the road from Marylebone High Street. The nearest pub to the RCM is the best part of a 10-minute walk!

[thalbergmad]

The nearest pub to the RCM is the best part of a 10-minute walk!

There or back??

Sometimes the two figures can be vastly different.

Thal

[franzliszt2]

The front entrance of the RAM is hardly appealing, but the place backs right on to the nicest corner of Regents Park and is only across the road from Marylebone High Street. The nearest pub to the RCM is the best part of a 10-minute walk!

Erm...RCM has imperial college bar about a 1 minute walk away. The next pub is probably 3 minutes away. There is also a bar inside RCM. So pubs can't be a factor here

[ahinton]

Royal Academy has the better library

Yes, I believe that RAM has considerably more Sorabji than RCM, in spite of the fact that the latter was my own alma mater.

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

There or back??

Sometimes the two figures can be vastly different.

That might only be a factor for those whose embonpoint identifies them as more upright than orotund (rolling stones and all that)...

Best,

Alistair

[richard black]

There or back??

Given what a pint costs in South Kensington, it'll be the same either way, I'm afraid.