Is this learning?

[garetanne]

Not sure if I can express this question in words.
I'm a new (4 months) adult student.
I've been working my way through the Alfred's Adult book with a teacher and I'm just about done with the first book at this point.

Sometimes I have to play a piece over, and over again before I "get it".  Is this normal? 

I start out slowly, picking my way through, and gaining speed and confidence with practice. 

I wonder if I'll ever get to the point where I can sit down and just play a piece as written, or will every new piece of music require "learning".

[franz_]

Sometimes I have to play a piece over, and over again before I "get it".  Is this normal? 
Yes
I start out slowly, picking my way through, and gaining speed and confidence with practice. 
This is normal
I wonder if I'll ever get to the point where I can sit down and just play a piece as written, or will every new piece of music require "learning".
Yes, some easier pieces you could sightread, but to make music and tell something, you have to practise and think about what you wanna do.

[debussy symbolism]

Greetings.

Of course it is normal. Even if you sit down and try to play a piece and get nothing to come out at all, is still normal. Here we get practice and repetition to play a big part in achieving a piece.

[barnowl]

Franz_ said it so much more eloquently than you Debussy. You just don't have it anymore. 

[kimba1055]

Not sure if I can express this question in words.
I'm a new (4 months) adult student.
I've been working my way through the Alfred's Adult book with a teacher and I'm just about done with the first book at this point.

Sometimes I have to play a piece over, and over again before I "get it".  Is this normal? 

I start out slowly, picking my way through, and gaining speed and confidence with practice. 

I wonder if I'll ever get to the point where I can sit down and just play a piece as written, or will every new piece of music require "learning".

leg me said that i been playing for 3 years and i"m getting better and faster but went i star a new piece  i have to play it over and over  before i get good at it

[debussy symbolism]

Concerning instant perfection in sight reading of pieces of considerable difficulty, it is only natural that as the technique that is involved in playing a particular passage within the particular piece is more aquaintanced with as more and more material, whether pieces of music or technical excercise is inculcated through numerous repetition, hence practice. To make this overly long sentence short, the more material we cover, the easier it is to see patterns within a piece. For example, the previously stated arpeggios, which so many forumers advice against practicing, are used in many pieces to some degree. Such arpeggios are etched in the third page of the first Moszkowski etude in E major. With continuous arpeggios practice, the arpeggios in the etude become natural. Hence this, practicing pure arpeggios is helpfull in playing them in the etude.

Instead of an insouciant and non chalant way of repeating arpeggios or scales, I focus on the every note and hand movement, to make most of my time.

Sorry if I ranted off of the topic.

[cjp_piano]

It is normal to work on a piece for a while before becoming proficient at playing it; however, if you are playing it over and over without much progress, you may be practicing it the wrong way, or practicing it inefficiently. 

Instead of "picking your way through it", work on just a little bit at a time, seeing how soon you can play that part EASILY.  Repeat it until it's easy.  Continue to the next section.  Then put the 2 sections together, etc.  It seems like that same as just trying to play the whole piece, but there are usually too many issues, so just focus on small sections.

You should keep asking yourself, "is it easy to play it correctly?"  This should be your goal.  So . . .

"Don't practice until you get it right, practice until you can't get it wrong." I heard that or read it somewhere from someone, I can't remember   

Anyway, your teacher should give you helpful advice on how to practice.  Good luck!

[garetanne]

Thanks for the replies......

After I posted, it almost sounded like a stupid question, but apparently you understood me. 

I have been working on a particular piece for the last few weeks and it almost seemed like I would never "get it".

Last night I played it VERY slowly with the metronome (sp?).  Painfully slow.  Each time I got through the piece correctly, I'd speed it up a notch.  I am definately recognizing patterns, and I know the passages that I have to REALLY concentrate on.

Later, I went back to some of the early pieces that I had struggled with and they were  much easier, so I guess I am learning something! 

It's hard to know how well I'm progressing, especially when I've got friends who have been playing for 40 years and can just play a song by ear.

[ttrent]

i finished the same book a few months ago  . Personally i think it's a good thing that what you're practicing is still difficult for you, it means you're challenging yourself and in turn progressing. I dont think i've ever sat down and played a piece perfectly the first time, unless it was far below my level. But look at the songs you're struggling with now compared to the ones you did previous. If you're getting towards the end of the book then notice how you can read intervals much better, how easy it is to recognize and play chords, playing outside of one octave, recognizing sharps + flats,  etc.

[bernhard]

Yes, this is perfectly normal. As you progress, this feeling of not having a clue will stiil be with you, but for the pieces that are challenging/difficult/impossible. For the other pieces (that are now easy for you) you will develop a new feeling of mastery.

It works somewhat like this:

Beginner student: Does not have clue. Even the silliest piece seems impossible to play and is mastered only after great effort/time.

Intermediate student: With a little effort, sometimes with no effort at all, can tackle the easy pieces that as a beginner seemed impossible. But now he has to tackle pieces considerably more difficult and those are mastered only after great effort and time.

Advanced student: With a little effort, sometimes with no effort at all, can tackle the intermediate pieces pieces that as an intermediate student seemed impossible. The easy pieces that caused so much trouble when he was a beginner, he just wheezes through. But now he has to tackle pieces that are really difficult and those are mastered only after great effort and time.

Concert pianist: Can wheeze through anything without a sweat. That is usually when they meet Sorabji…

If I understand you correctly your way of practicing seems to be to repeat a piece from beginning to end many times, increasing speed as you go. If this is so, then your way of working on pieces is one of the most inefficient ever devised. I suggest you read Chang´s online book here:

https://members.aol.com/chang8828/contents.htm

and that you explore the several threads that deal with practice in this thread:

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,5767.msg56133.html#msg56133
(huge collection of links)

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[moi_not_toi]

It depends. If you just completely ignore your teacher in everything except technique and theory and go on your own, finding pieces you like, you might get to a point to where you can read anything out and it will sound pretty good.

The downside to this is that your technique suffers considerably.

[debussy symbolism]

Concerning practicing a piece. Divide it into sections, not matter how small, even just a couple of bars in length and work on them. Don't just repeat the entire thing many times, without working on sections that need most help. Of course there is nothing wrong with just repeating a piece as a whole many times either.

[galonia]

Completely off topic, but out of concern for the health of Bernhard's respiratory system... Bernhard, did you mean that as an advanced student you can whiz through some easier works, rather than wheeze?   

[garetanne]

Concerning practicing a piece. Divide it into sections, not matter how small, even just a couple of bars in length and work on them. Don't just repeat the entire thing many times, without working on sections that need most help. Of course there is nothing wrong with just repeating a piece as a whole many times either.

Yes, I do this.... once I've done the division, and get the "hard" parts I pull out the metronome and try to play the piece through without slowing down when I GET to the hard parts.  Each time I am successful, I'll speed it up a bit.

Funny, how I can struggle with something and then a week or so after my lesson go back to it and just be able to play it.  It's like my fingers remember.  Good stuff this learning to play the piano.  Maybe by the time I'm 80 I'll be half way decent! 

[tompilk]

sometimes i just play a bar or two of some insanely hard piece, using the laptop for the sheetmusic so i dont waste paper printing out paper I'm not serious about.
however, the satisfaction of being able to play some of the Alkan Concerto for solo piano at a quarter speed is incredible!
The sound "configurations" or whatever they are called is still there... the notes are beautiful in itself... even if it's played slowly...
So this is normal... people can't just play things. Even Hamelin, I doubt, could sightread something like a rachmaninov concerto (and these are nothing compared to other pieces there are, even that he has played).
Tom

[bernhard]

Completely off topic, but out of concern for the health of Bernhard's respiratory system... Bernhard, did you mean that as an advanced student you can whiz through some easier works, rather than wheeze?   

Darn!

Why can´t the English write phonetically?

(thanks for the revision)

[berrt]

sometimes i just play a bar or two of some insanely hard piece.
However, the satisfaction of being able to play some of the Alkan Concerto for solo piano at a quarter speed is incredible!
The sound "configurations" or whatever they are called is still there... the notes are beautiful in itself... even if it's played slowly...

So im not alone... i like doing this, too - experimenting now with the "Tom & Jerry-piece" (HR2), i find that the beginning of the "friska"-part is much easier than it sounds (that means possible for me slowed-down).

B.