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Topic: Rachmaninoff Second Sonata  (Read 2224 times)

Offline liszmaninopin

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Rachmaninoff Second Sonata
on: December 22, 2003, 11:23:09 PM
I'm just curious, but which version do you like better, 1913 or 1931?  I have always preferred the 1913 version, someday I intend to learn it.

Offline steinwaymodeld

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Re: Rachmaninoff Second Sonata
Reply #1 on: December 23, 2003, 12:01:17 AM
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I'm just curious, but which version do you like better, 1913 or 1931?  I have always preferred the 1913 version, someday I intend to learn it.


1931, the one modified, and the Horowitz version.
Perfection itself is imperfection - Vladimir Horowitz

Offline thracozaag

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Re: Rachmaninoff Second Sonata
Reply #2 on: December 23, 2003, 05:19:04 PM
 the 1913 version is wonderful of course, but a little overloaded (even by Rachmaninoff standards).  I prefer the Horowitz version, the 1931 is just too stripped down.
"We have to reach a certain level before we realize how small we are."--Georges Cziffra

Offline IgnazPaderewski

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Re: Rachmaninoff Second Sonata
Reply #3 on: December 23, 2003, 05:43:47 PM
the 1913 is by far the best - Horowitz plays this but omits the more complex bits that he doesn't understand. The 1931 version removes a) 50% of the virtuoso aspect and b) many of the most beautiful sections of music. Not good. The 1913 is more difficult, but better.

Offline liszmaninopin

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Re: Rachmaninoff Second Sonata
Reply #4 on: December 23, 2003, 07:34:13 PM
It's a shame that Rachmaninoff never left us a recording of either of his Sonatas.  Maybe he did and I don't know about it, but I have never seen one.  Has anybody here actually played all of 1913?

Offline thracozaag

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Re: Rachmaninoff Second Sonata
Reply #5 on: December 24, 2003, 05:08:39 PM
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It's a shame that Rachmaninoff never left us a recording of either of his Sonatas.  Maybe he did and I don't know about it, but I have never seen one.  Has anybody here actually played all of 1913?



 Yeah..it's a pain.
"We have to reach a certain level before we realize how small we are."--Georges Cziffra

Offline liszmaninopin

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Re: Rachmaninoff Second Sonata
Reply #6 on: December 25, 2003, 12:28:22 AM
What is a pain; that he never left us a recording or that you've played the whole thing?

Offline chopiabin

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Re: Rachmaninoff Second Sonata
Reply #7 on: December 25, 2003, 07:38:23 AM
I can't believe someone said that Horowitz didn't understand some of Rachmaninov. How dare you?!  >:(

Chop

Offline krenske

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Re: Rachmaninoff Second Sonata
Reply #8 on: December 26, 2003, 02:21:28 AM
I originally played the 1913 version (simply because all the good stuff is left out in 1931). I then swung to the Van Cliburn version - a move in the right direction I think. The problem here is that if you're going to perform a piece (be it in competition or not) and its not the composer's original, you'd want to be really personally convinced of its structure. So I learned the 1931 version and performed it until I really started missing things including that beautiful ending to the second movement. So I gave up and made my own version of all my favourite bits - ive been told that one gives the best continuity in performance. As i see it, Rach Sonata 2 is one of the only pieces in the concert repertoire where you have to find your own "solution" - and so the performer is simultaneously virtuoso and composer - which is very interesting to the audience!
"Horowitz died so Krenske could live."

Offline thracozaag

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Re: Rachmaninoff Second Sonata
Reply #9 on: December 27, 2003, 09:43:18 PM
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What is a pain; that he never left us a recording or that you've played the whole thing?


 Both, actually.
"We have to reach a certain level before we realize how small we are."--Georges Cziffra

Offline IgnazPaderewski

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Re: Rachmaninoff Second Sonata
Reply #10 on: December 28, 2003, 02:25:53 AM
dont tamper with Rachmaninoff's score, just play the original version complete. It has a few strange bits, but it is so much better.... Also (Im not a heathen, I love the recordings) don listen to Horowitz's recordings until you have learnt the thing properly, as Horowitz takes many liberties which are not entirely consistent with the text, so do not search after his effects in passagework because a lot of it (Ive seen the video) is a result from rearranging the notes!

Offline krenske

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Re: Rachmaninoff Second Sonata
Reply #11 on: December 28, 2003, 05:07:04 AM
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dont tamper with Rachmaninoff's score, just play the original version complete.


Who says? Certainly not Rachmaninoff. Come to think of it, I don't think Liszt or Chopin treated their "compositions" as rigid musical bibles either. Bach probably did though. But then again he still loved the occasional cigar, and probably the odd liason with Mrs Bach too.
"Horowitz died so Krenske could live."

Offline liszmaninopin

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Re: Rachmaninoff Second Sonata
Reply #12 on: December 28, 2003, 05:42:04 AM
Can anybody suggest any etudes or exercises that might be especially helpful for learning this Sonata?

Offline IgnazPaderewski

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Re: Rachmaninoff Second Sonata
Reply #13 on: December 28, 2003, 12:18:14 PM
Yes but I would not trust myself with the responsibility of cutting and pasting a 25 minute sonata into something good. Rachmaninoff trusted Horowitz, but I am not he.

Offline fledermaus

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Re: Rachmaninoff Second Sonata
Reply #14 on: December 28, 2003, 09:25:25 PM
I think 1913 version is more interesting than 1931.
More difficult, but better construction indeed!

Offline krenske

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Re: Rachmaninoff Second Sonata
Reply #15 on: January 02, 2004, 12:45:44 AM
I think paderewski would've cut and pasted a bit. He probably would have changed the basses too.
"Horowitz died so Krenske could live."
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