Concert etudes

[kaveh]

Hi,

I'm hoping someone can recommend some good technical studies.  My teacher suggested a whole host (Brahm's, Dohnani, Scriabin, Liszt, Moschelier (spelling??) etc) none of which I'm familiar with.

Aside from the Chopin etudes (spell-binding), which studies are generally considered the most musical and would not be out of place in a recital?

I realise that personal preference is a large determinant here, but broadly speaking, which studies might best suit my requirements?

Thanks!
Kaveh

[nanabush]

Liszt Etudes.... Rachmaninoff Etudes.... look at those and be amazed

[kaveh]

Thanks, nanabush.

With the liszt etudes, Series I (inc. transcendental), Series II (inc paganini) or both?

[sportsmonster]

i have found several neglected etudes that are very interesting:

moszkovski: etude op 72 specially no 13 and no 2
carl czerny: op 740 (many shorter etudes)
cramer: etude no 16
alkan: (it might be a few there that you like. but some are a bit wierd and insanely difficult to play)

But mostly in my opinions, Chopin, Liszt and Rachmaninov has the best etudes.
And if youre not going to play chopins etudes, i would recommend liszt etudes.
His concert etudes: un sospiro and gnomenreigen are also very cool to play. sounds great and perfect show off. ( La campanella, Mazeppa and etude no 10 are my 3 favorites)
 

[phil13]

Scriabin's etudes are beautiful.
They're also very hard.

Some of my favorites are Op.2 No.1, Op8 Nos.2, 5, 6, 8, 9, 11, and 12, and Op.42 Nos. 1, 4, 5, and 8.

What level are you at? What else are you playing?

Phil

[kaveh]

I'd say I'm intermediate. 

Currently working my way through the Bach inventions (2-part), and studying two Chopin etudes op 25.1 and 25.12.

I think Scriabin etudes may be a little out of my league at the moment!

The Liszt and Rach etudes... again, I take it these are all very difficult?

I'm looking for some etudes that cover a range of technical challenges and levels of difficulty, while sounding well, more like music than technical studies.

Nothing too advanced just yet.  Something that offers a challenging progression.

[nanabush]

The Liszt Etudes may be too difficult, I'm not familiar at all with them... Most of the Rach Etudes may be accessible but you might wanna stay away from some, namely op 33 Eb minor ( #6 ),  and op39 #1, 3, 5, 6, and 9...You can get sample recordings on amazon, check them out.

[kaveh]

Thanks for all the advice -

Ordered myself a copy of Rachmaninoff, 'Complete preludes and Etudes-tableaux'.

Something else to try and make time for!

[houseofblackleaves]

Rachmaninoff's etudes tableaux are my favorite by far.

[bflatminor24]

I mentioned in an earlier post the difficulty of different sets of etudes. I tried to order them from easiest to hardest, starting with Chopin. It went something like this:

Chopin
Rachmaninoff
Schumann
Liszt
Saint-Saens
Scriabin
Henselt
Dohnanyi
Bolcom
Alkan
Ligeti
Godowsky
Sorabji

Some of my favorites include:

Chopin:
10/1
10/3
10/4
10/5
10/8
10/12
25/1
25/5
25/6
25/11
25/12

Liszt:

Transcendental 4
Transcendental 5
Transcendental 10
Transcendental 11
Paganini 3 (La Campanella)
Paganini 6
Sospiro
Gnomenreigen

Scriabin:

8/2
8/3
8/5
8/12
42/5
65/3

Alkan:

35/3
35/7
35/9
35/10
35/11
35/12
39/4-7 (Symphony)
39/8-10 (Concerto)
17 Le Preux

Of course the other sets are all great...these are just some I especially like.

~Max~

[faulty_damper]

Hi,

I'm hoping someone can recommend some good technical studies.  My teacher suggested a whole host (Brahm's, Dohnani, Scriabin, Liszt, Moschelier (spelling??) etc) none of which I'm familiar with.

Aside from the Chopin etudes (spell-binding), which studies are generally considered the most musical and would not be out of place in a recital?

I realise that personal preference is a large determinant here, but broadly speaking, which studies might best suit my requirements?

Thanks!
Kaveh

  What are musical studies that do not require too much time to learn and master?  Too many.
But based on the Chopin studies you are currently studying I recommend taking a reading of these two studies which are surprisingly similar to the Chopin's:

Liszt: Waldrauschen (Forest Murmers), from two concert studies and it's mate, Gnomenreigen (Dance of the Gnomes).

  Both are quite musical and can be played in concert, particularly if both are played as a pair.  They are much easier than the Transcendental etudes.  The technique is rather straight-forward and both pieces only have 2 or 3 repeating patterns that meet the "etude" aspect. 
  Chopin 25-1 has similar figuration patterns for Waldrauschen; 25-12 has similar figuration patterns for Gnomenreigen which I why I thought of these two.
  Other than the similarities to the studies you are currently working on, they are very musical, even more so than the Chopin's.  Forest Murmers is very lyrical and sings very well.  Dance of the Gnomes is very playful but not as lyrical.  From a visual perspective of your body as you play it, Gnomenreigen looks more difficult; Waldrauschen is much more calm.  Gnomenreigen will probably impress audiences more because it looks more difficult.

Also keep in mind that these two recommendations are not easy to play if you learn them with a poor technique.  They require a superb technique if you want to learn them quickly and play musically.  But hopefully you have the technique to learn them.

[tompilk]

Thanks for all the advice -

Ordered myself a copy of Rachmaninoff, 'Complete preludes and Etudes-tableaux'.

Something else to try and make time for!

did you get the dover version? i ordered them from amazon a month or so ago and it was a bargain at £6.90!!!
Tom

[kaveh]

did you get the dover version? i ordered them from amazon a month or so ago and it was a bargain at £6.90!!!

Try £6.32.  Almost fell off my chair when I saw the price.  May as well have been giving it away!

bflatminor...   I think the first two on your list will keep me busy for a long time yet!

Liszt: Waldrauschen (Forest Murmers), from two concert studies and it's mate, Gnomenreigen (Dance of the Gnomes).

Thanks for the tip.  I'll look into this once the piano nazi (AKA my dear teacher) thinks I'm ready to move on. 

[kaveh]

Saw my teacher today - he wasn't too impressed with the Rach etudes-tableaux.

Looks like we got our wires crossed.

By studies he meant exercises (he's Argentinian), ideally devoid of any musical content to allow total focus on technique aquisition.

So virtually the exact opposite of my first question...

[bernhard]

 

Take your pick (all "mechanism" exercises with no musical aspirations):


Hanon – The virtuoso pianist

Arthur Gold & Robert Fizdale – Hanon revisited: Contemporary piano exercises

Ferdinand Beyer – Preparatory school op. 101

Albert Biehl

The elements of piano playing op,. 30 (similar to Pischna)
25 easy and progressive studies op. 44

Henri Herz – Scales and exercises (Pischna like)

Isidore Phillip Complete School of Technique for the piano

Alfred Cortot Rational principles of pianoforte technique

Erno Dohnanyi – Essential finger exercises for obtaining a reliable piano tehcnique.

Blanche H. Rennie Hand culture – Finger hand and arm gymnastics at the piano giving strength, freedom and independence.

Johannes Brahms – 51 exercises

Pischna

The little Pischna – 48 practice pieces
Technical studies: 60 progressive exercises

Louis Plaidy – Technical studies for the piano

Alloy Schmitt – Preparatory exercises, op. 18

Geoffrey Tankard & Eric Harrisson – Pianoforte technique on an hour a day.

Fredrick Wieck – Piano studies (Wieck was Clara Schumann’s father and teacher)

Moszkowski

Scuola delle doppie note. op 64 - Ed. Ricordi
12 Studies for left hand op 92 - Ed Ricordi

Marguerite Long - Le Piano de Marguerite Long - Editions Salabert - Préface, Notes tennues, Cinq doigts, Cinq doigts avec notes tenues, Notes répétées, trilles, doubles-notes, tierces, quartes et quintes, sixtes, gammes, arpèges, jeu du poignet, octaves, accords, exercices pour les déplacements et la maitrisse du clavier, trémolo, glissando.

Alessandro Longo

12 Studies of thirds op 35
06 Studies of sixths op 42 - Ricordi
06 Studies of octaves op 48 - Ricordi
24 Estudios sobre arpegios en todos los tonos mayores y menores
40 Pequeños estudios melódicos op 43

Lillie H. Philipp - Piano Technique - Dover Pulications, Inc.

Ettore Pozzoli - La técnica diaria del pianista Libro I...Libro II. Ricordi.

Raff - 30 Estudios Progressivos - Ricordi

Tausig 50 Ejercicios diarios - Ricordi

Ondine de Mello - Exercícios de Técnica para Piano - Preface Nelson Freire - Irmaos Vitale

B. Cesi -  Piano Technique- Part  I, II, III, IV – Ricordi

 

(Maybe your teacher is unhappy that Argentina didi not make it to the world cup )

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[kaveh]

Long time 

What can I do?? Survived eight lessons but he's relentless.

Great musicality, big on arm weight, sight-reading,  demonstrates all the classic movements for the Chopin etudes, talks about drinks with Rubinstein and breakfast with Martha, then fanaticizes about technical exercises with his tumultuous latin temperament!

Even told me to bring manuscript paper next time.

Ordered the Brahms, 51 exercises...

Do I have a choice?

P.S>  Go Thierry 

[elias89]

Brahms 51 exercises ------ great to perfect your technique, but very very difficult

[kaveh]

Fresh shipment - Brahms 51.

Flicking through, looks like it'll take me fifty hours just to work out the fingering!  Not to mention the transpositions...