How to practice a piece once you've learnt it

[ada]

The topic of practice has been extensively covered here (many thanks B and others) but it seems to relate mainly to learning a new piece.

How do you practice a piece once you've "learnt" it, ie, once you can play it through mostly at speed without hitting too many wrong notes?

Do you simply play it over and over? Do you experiment with tempo? Do you work on memorisation?

 Is there any systematic routine for bringing a piece you've learnt up to performance standard, as there is for learning a new piece?

I am an intermediate sort of player currently at the I-can-play-them-but-not-brilliantly stage for:

Beethoven's Op14/2 2nd mvt
Chopin's waltz Op 69/2
Bach's Sinfonia 4.

I feel I've hit a bit of a  brick wall in terms of taking them to the next level.

 Ok, I can play them through correctly but how do I go about polishing them?

tks
 

[debussy symbolism]

Greetings.

If you feel that a section of a piece isn't learned as good as it could be, then you haven't learned the piece. Work on those particular sections at a slow tempo.

Once all of the notes are momorized, and one has no trouble with the piece, then it is learned, but must be remained that way by practicing it and repeating it slowly. You can of course play it fast, but make sure to play it slowly to not lose the notes.

[stevehopwood]

I take a piece I know well a section at a time - usually a few lines. I play each section very slowly twice. I concentrate entirely of accuracy - I do not allow myself to make mistakes or the whole thing is a waste of time.

After working through the piece in this way, I finish by playing it through up to speed. It is amazing how much extra control I gain from doing this.

Two seems to be the magic number; enough to make a difference but not so much that I become bored. Fairly short sections avoids speeding up without realising.

The demand of total accuracy takes huge concentration, but I find this well worth the effort. It also allows me to keep a large number of pieces on the go without taking astronomical amounts of time.

Steve 

[ada]

Thanks, great stuff

[nick]

I play the tough section accurately, whatever that speed is, no matter how slowly it needs to be. If I can repeat it correctly, then I go a bit faster, always using the metronome so I can take subjective thinking out of it. Once up to a certain speed, past medium, I need to stay at a gvien speed longer, sometimes a couple of weeks or more,  depending on how fast it is, always playing aerobically, as opposed to anaerobically( able to repeat the section without more rest than 4 or 5 seconds).  It is truely amazing how this method is successful to increase ones speed. No speed walls, just patience to reach the goal. Hope this helps and let me know.

Nick

[gonzalo]

If you've already learned it, then practice it in your mind (mental practice). Thus you can't make mistakes and your knowledge of the piece will improve.

[pianistimo]

never heard of aerobically vs anaerobically - but it makes sense.  to repeat things (even if u are changing the tempo) as a sort of blend of technical endurance thing worked in with memory. 

my teacher had been suggesting this very thing.  doubling up on what u are concentrating on at one time.  i call this - for me - mind expansion.  to try to include more and more things into ur mind and practice it at one time.  not sure what that is called.  efficiency, i guess.

also, i like to play in the dark - once i learn a piece - to hear myself better.  then, i turn on the light and see if i remembered everything i was supposed to (the way it is written).

tape recording urself is a sure way to see if u are playing a piece the way u want it to sound.

**without a teacher's help - sometimes u can make idiotic mistakes like misread one note and learn the piece and think that a particular note is the right note.  has anyone ever done this?  especially very high or low notes.  u think ur really good and someone says 'i think u played the wrong note there.'

or - u play right through a very important section without the feeling that was intended.  then 5-20 years later - u say - ohhhh. now i understand what the composer was trying to say.

[crazy for ivan moravec]

if you have the luxury of time, try practicing a piece (or a set of pieces) every other week. you can alternate every other week with another set of pieces. it always comes out fresh. this way, u avoid unintentional mechanical practice from which we draw bad habits (because we lack concentration). it's nice to let a piece relax once in a while, then just work on it intensively a month before the performance.

as with how to actually practice it, u need to find out the problems (or even anticipate them) and make solutions for them. it is very important to know your strengths and weakness coz from them you will be able to easily find out things you have to expect u might have a hard time with. there is no set or routine of practice techniques (probably except memory/retaining).

[bernhard]

Have a look here:

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2485.msg21499.html#msg21499
(How to keep a piece in the repertory – learn/forget/relearn)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4168.msg38569.html#msg38569
(Keeping pieces polished – learn/forget/relearn)

And these may be of interest as well:

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2719.msg23619.html#msg23619
(things that improve your playing – teaching).

https://www.pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,8417.msg85259.html#msg85259
(when is a piece finished – why technique and interpretation cannot be divorced)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,1844.msg13949.html#msg13949
(Overpractising – stopping at the last perfect rendition).

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,3735.msg33547.html#msg33547
(Form and structure x emotion and interpretation – know the most about a piece)

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[ada]

many tks everyone