Chopin 1st ballade question

[psaiko]

I am learning this piece now. What I find most difficult is actually all the fast left hand jumps in the ending (and some in the middle). How do I learn these jumps most efficiently? By playing the sections slowly many times the arm will eventually learn exactly how far to move but this is extremely time consuming. Any better ways?

And another question. In the fortissimo section right before the animato you have to play some fast octaves (bars 110 and 111) while holding down a key with your 2nd finger. I find this very akward and consider just skipping the 2nd finger. Do anyone else cheat like this in this passage?

[avetma]

Here is Cortot edition of this ballade. Look at the bottom of pages! There are technical exercises for some passages. Including left hand jumps.

About 100 and 101 - I don't usually cheat there, but if someone has small hand - I think it really doesn't matter so much.

[psaiko]

Thank you, that version looks really helpful. If I knew french it would be even better. I have been playing Baron von Stockhausen edition (which is available at that free site), its amazing how many differences there are.

[avetma]

You welcome.

For translation - just copy that text into a textbox on https://www.google.com/translate_t and select French to English.

[psaiko]

For translation - just copy that text into a textbox on https://www.google.com/translate_t and select French to English.

Yes, but I dont think the text is actually text, so I cant copy and paste.

[rapmasterb]

I  also have trouble with the above bars - the fact that you have to move your thumb so quickly as well as in tandem with your weak fingers is very tricky. Now to see what Cortot has to say .....

[bella musica]

About the LH jumps - play very slowly while watching your hand.  Make sure your hand stays as close to the keys as possible so that your hand doesn't have to travel so far each time it jumps.

Another thing that helps is to play slowly, only have your hand on the next key(s) BEFORE you have to play them.  In other words, you are playing slowly but practicing fast jumps, if you catch my drift.

[quantum]

LH Jumps, try to maintain a constant finger position as possible.  When you are playing the bass note have your hand already in the position to play the following chord - this way your fingers have less to remember and don't get as confused if you constanly change hand positions. 

[walking_encyclopedia]

[quote author=avetma link=topic=19153.msg207312#msg207312 date=1152355225
About 100 and 101 - I don't usually cheat there, but if someone has small hand - I think it really doesn't matter so much.

oh come on now, dont be such a copout!!! dude, i'm learning this same thing, and do you think chopin wrote that expecting for a student to just skip it? besides, that section is so easy compared to the other ones, if you can't hold down a note while playing octaves, then you're probably not ready for the finale marked at presto, or a few other very tricky sections in this piece. and plus, like how could you live with yourself performing this piece if you knew you had just skipped every note that gave you a problem??!!!!

sorry if that sounded harsh but that's just my opinion dude.

as for the lh jumps, i didn't have as much trouble there in the lh as i do in the rh. playing the fast scintillating upper part of the presto pretty hard. you just gotta remember to use a completely lateral motion of the arm, same will work for the left hand. let your hand stay real close to the keys and you'll get better speed. and never sacrifice good solid sound for speed.

good luck

danny

[jas]

oh come on now, dont be such a copout!!! dude, i'm learning this same thing, and do you think chopin wrote that expecting for a student to just skip it? besides, that section is so easy compared to the other ones, if you can't hold down a note while playing octaves, then you're probably not ready for the finale marked at presto, or a few other very tricky sections in this piece. and plus, like how could you live with yourself performing this piece if you knew you had just skipped every note that gave you a problem??!!!!

sorry if that sounded harsh but that's just my opinion dude.

as for the lh jumps, i didn't have as much trouble there in the lh as i do in the rh. playing the fast scintillating upper part of the presto pretty hard. you just gotta remember to use a completely lateral motion of the arm, same will work for the left hand. let your hand stay real close to the keys and you'll get better speed. and never sacrifice good solid sound for speed.

good luck

danny

I agree. Don't miss things out, look at it as an opportunity to develop your technique and get all the notes in there! Having said that, at the end I always miss out one note. On the Cortot it's the first r.h. beat of the last bar of p.19 (p.19 on the page, not in Acrobat). I miss out the bottom G in the chord because my hand's always too tired for the next bit if I play it. Anyway, it's not really noticeable hidden in a full chord.
Shameless cheating, but at least it means I can make it to the end unscathed!

[psaiko]

oh come on now, dont be such a copout!!! dude, i'm learning this same thing, and do you think chopin wrote that expecting for a student to just skip it? besides, that section is so easy compared to the other ones, if you can't hold down a note while playing octaves, then you're probably not ready for the finale marked at presto, or a few other very tricky sections in this piece. and plus, like how could you live with yourself performing this piece if you knew you had just skipped every note that gave you a problem??!!!!

sorry if that sounded harsh but that's just my opinion dude.

as for the lh jumps, i didn't have as much trouble there in the lh as i do in the rh. playing the fast scintillating upper part of the presto pretty hard. you just gotta remember to use a completely lateral motion of the arm, same will work for the left hand. let your hand stay real close to the keys and you'll get better speed. and never sacrifice good solid sound for speed.

good luck

danny

Well, the reason I am asking is because you will pedal through the last half of the bar anyway, so is there really a difference if you hold down a note or not? If I hold down the middle note the octaves will not sound as good.

I have never cheated in a piece before but for this passage its very tempting. I gain a lot and loose nothing (if using the pedal right).