The Perfect Practice Experiment

[seely]

* edit, July 14: v.2 of the guide posted: https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,19198.msg208872.html#msg208872 *

Greetings:


I'm a long time reader and first time poster. First, thanks to everyone for posting quality content on these forums. I have discovered great new music here and have learned helpful practice techniques. Special thanks to Bernhard for being insightful and Stevie for being funny.


Introduction:


I have taken piano seriously for the past two years. I have somewhat of an obsession with classical music, so I get rather excited over certain piano pieces, knowing that someday I will be playing them effortlessly. I particularly look forward to the day when I can play Chopin Ballades and much of the Prokofiev repertoire.

But like all eager musicians, I run into practice problems. In general, I practice horribly. I have a habit of playing over the parts of a piece I’m comfortable with instead of working on what Im uncomfortable with. I cannot polish a piece for the life of me. Once I got it "pretty good" I just start jamming away and having fun with the piece instead of focusing on how I can make it even better. I habitually practice with pedal. I find myself playing a piece at speeds Im not yet ready to play at. The list goes on.

Im in no way unique. Most piano students have less than perfect practicing habits. To remove a bad habit or learn a good one takes patience and time. Even smokers who quit cold turkey must endure several weeks of temptation. That feeling of resistance is simply the process of the habit going through a change. Once the temptation is gone, the smoker has successfully removed a bad habit. When teachers tell their students to practice pieces more slowly, the student must resist the temptation to practice fast. If she listens it might be only a few weeks or even days when the student can habitually practice at learning-efficient tempos.

The problem is that the student doesnt always listen. Usually the student isnt even aware of his or her bad habits. If he is, the list of them is so huge that it’s intimidating, and it wont be long until the student gives up and returns to the usual habits.


The Perfect Practice Experiment


However, I am going to try an experiment, what I call the perfect practice experiment. Here is the main statement of the experiment:

I am going to take one piece of music and practice it in the most effective and efficient way possible. I will be required to apply perfect practice to this piece of music, but to this piece of music only.

My usual, comfortable, "bad" habits may apply to any other pieces of music I’m playing at the time. I am allowed to return to my usual, comfortable, "bad" habits upon completing this perfect practice piece.

A few rules:

1.   I must be deeply passionate about this piece. I must have every desire to play it with utter perfection

2.   I only require myself to apply perfect practice technique to this piece of music only.

3.   I will practice this piece until it’s perfect as far as my piano ability allows. I will let this piece take its own time and will not set any deadline for completion.

4.   The piece will be at a reasonable difficulty level. Challenging pieces are preferred, but if it takes longer than two months to complete, the experiment might lose its effectiveness.

5.   I will adhere to the perfect practice guide for each practice session. I understand that some habits take several months to manifest, but I will adhere to these habits as far as my current ability will allow.

6.   Psychologically, I will allow myself the freedom to use whatever natural habits I’d like when not playing this piece. This includes pieces played after the experiment.

7.   I will find in myself the energy, motivation, and focus to tackle this experiment. The energy required will be more than what’s available for everyday practice.

This experiment is largely psychological. Let me explain: To tell a piano player to forever change his or her habits is meaningless. The piano player would love to have perfect practicing habits, but it’s just a long, arduous, unpleasant process.

It’s easier to tell the piano player to establish perfect practicing habits for one piece only, for a piece that she is motivated to learn and has dreams of playing flawlessly. Applying perfect practice technique to just one piece is a relatively easy commitment, and so the piano player will do so!

I have used this psychological effect with great success in other aspects of my life. When I was trying to change my diet I found myself in a constant struggle. I liked food too much, so I couldn’t resist eating and snacking more than I needed too. My diet was improving since I was becoming more health conscious, but it was still a struggle, and the change was happening at a much slower rate than it could have been. What I did, then, was commit myself to one week of perfectly healthy eating. Just one week. I allowed myself to return to whatever habits I wanted to after that week. I established what I considered to be a perfect diet and I stood by that for the entire week. It wasn’t that hard. That one week changed my perspective, as I was finally given the opportunity to fully enjoy the benefits of a healthy diet. The struggle was severely lessened after that week and I found it easier to maintain a healthy diet.


The Goal of the Perfect Practice Experiment:


1.   To take a piece of music and learn it in the most efficient manner possible.

2.   To develop good habits with the piece right from the beginning.

3.   To use psychology as a means for ultimately better practicing habits for every piece played thereafter. You are only required to fully commit yourself to one piece of music, but upon seeing the results, you will gladly apply similar habits to all of your practicing.

4.   To catch a glimpse of what excellent practice can yield.

5.   Since you are required to use more energy, motivation, and focus on this piece than what’s normally available in everyday practice, you are also testing your limits.


My Experiment:


I have chosen my experiment piece. It is Sun Flowers by Yu Shi Wang.
You can find a youtube video of Yundi Li performing the piece here:

You can find the sheet music here:

https://ca.geocities.com/cm_index/indexU-Z.html#W

As far as my ability, here’s a short list of pieces I have played:

Chopin – Nocturne op 62 no 2 in E
Chopin – Minute Waltz
Grieg – Nocturne (performed)
Grieg – Wedding Day (working on…)
Prokofiev – Montegues and Capulets (performed)
Prokofiev – Sonata 7 – III Precipitato (working on… >.< )
Paderewski – Minuet
Bowen, York – Prelude #1 in C (working on)

With that repertoire, I feel that the Sun Flowers piece will provide enough new challenges but will be manageable – a perfect candidate for this experiment. I also really like it for some reason.

I’m not a particularly fast learner when it comes to piano, so I’d say under normal conditions this piece would at least take me a month to “learn” (i.e. acceptable but far from mastered). I wonder how long it will take under experimental conditions.


About The Perfect Practice Guide:


(I must confess that I use the word “perfect” because it sounds nice in the title. When I refer to perfect practice, “perfect” is a loose and relative term. “Perfect” might be better described as “in the best way I know possible given my current ability and knowledge.” Such perfection is real and obtainable.)

This is where I will need the most feedback. I need a structured plan that will be effective for this situation.

This Perfect Practice Guide is going to be short and very general. It will also be inherently geared toward my style of learning and my strengths and weaknesses. So if you want to perform a similar experiment, I suggest making your own personalized guide so that it is more effective for you.

The guide needs to be short enough so that each point can be thoroughly attended to throughout the experiment. That is, each point needs to be closely followed during practice. A very complicated guide would be very difficult to implement during practice, so clear, simple, yet effective points are prefered.

A good example is  "Concentrate during every second of your practice." It may not be easy to follow, but it is clear and powerfully effective.

That example was very broad and general. Good, but we also want to develop a routine so that I and anyone else partaking in this experiment has a clear idea of what we specifically should be doing at the bench. Here is a good example of what I mean:

"For the first few days of practice on a new piece, repeat one section four to eight times before beginning to practice the next. When two sections have been practiced in this way, they should be joined and given two to four repititions as a whole. Ultimately, all the sections should be fitted together in this way."


The Perfect Practice Guide:


V 1.0

After doing a fair amount of reading, I found the type of general practicing fundamentals I’m aiming for.

Taken from:

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,3202.msg28909.html#msg28909

1. The first time you play through your piece, or any section of it, be fanatically careful not to make any mistakes either in the notes or in time values.

2. Subdivide the piece into short sections.

3. Occasionally begin your practice by beginning at the last section of the piece, then do the next to last section, and so on till you have reached the beginning.

4. For the first few days of practice on a new piece, repeat one section four to eight times before beginning to practice the next. When two sections have been practiced in this way, they should be joined and given two to four repititions as a whole. Ultimately, all the sections should be fitted together in this way.

5. Resist the temptation to go on playing faster and faster. If you have a metronome, use it for an "external discipline" to check yourself.

6. During practice, try to free your mind from any anxiety concerning the final results of your practice, either with regard to standards or deadlines.

7. Always try to approach the act of learning a new piece when your are as fresh as possible. I prefer the morning for my practice.

8. Always be on the watch for signs of staleness. This usually reveals itself though lack of interest in your peice or in the presence of more that the usual amount of inaccuracy. It is east to "turn on the fingers" and "tune off the mind."

9. In the earliest stages of learning anything new, the rate of foegetting is very rapid. Therefore, the maxim of "little and often" in early stages of learning is very important.

10. Do not practice if you feel annoyed, irritable, or upset about anything.

11. Get into the habit of trying to look upon yourself as an ordinary human being. This means that you neither set absurd and impossible stardards of work for yourself nor allow yourself to besatisfied with a standard which you know really could and ought to be better.

12. Think ten times and play once.

13. Count bars, not beats, if your playing is lacking in movement.

14. Always think the rhythm and meter before starting to play.

15. Trills should aim as regularity before speed.

16. Listen for resonance, not noise, in loud passages.

17. Do not work against time. If you have only one hour at your disposal, plan 45 minutes of practice and do the most with each minute. If you attempt to plan for the whole hour, you will have your eye on the clock, a nervous tension that may result in muscular tension, and much of your mental energy will be wasted. "Surround every action with a circle of non-hurry."

18. Perform always, even when sight-reading. Always express something, and never "just run though."

19. Mark the beat with your other hand.

20. Think a piece though without any playing, either will or without the music.

21. Remember - every pianistic problem has both its origin and solution in the music itself.

FANNY BLOOMFIELD-ZEISLER’S
TEN RULES FOR PRACTICE

1.       Concentrate during every second of your practice.
     
2.       Divide your practice time into periods of not more than two hours.
     
3.       In commencing your practice, play over your  piece once or twice before beginning to memorise. Then pick out the more difficult passages for special attention and reiteration.
     
4.       Always practise slowly at first.
     
5.       Do not attempt to practise your whole piece at first. Take a small section or even a phrase.
     
6.       First memorise mentally the section you have selected for study.
     
7.       Occasionally memorise backwards.
     
8.       Remember that practice is simply a means of cultivating habits. If you play correctly from the start  you will form good habits.
     
9.       Always listen while you are playing.
     
10. Never attempt to play anything in public that you have just finished studying.

Final Thoughts:


I am very eager to put a lot of energy, focus, and concentration into this one piece of music. I want to see the results of good practicing habits. This is sort of a way to take a glimpse of what piano is like when practice is done right. Hopefully, I will be able to use those habits in everyday practice, but I probably won’t have the energy to invest in every piece as much as I do this one. That’s part of the idea though—to test my limits. This is an experiment after all.

I intend to practice this piece for a normal amount of time each day, say, 60 minutes or so. I’m aiming for good, efficient practice. How long it takes me to actually learn the piece is irrelevant to the experiment.

If you would also like to partake in the experiment, feel free to post. Maybe you can post the piece you choose to work on and use this thread to provide updates (maybe even a recording at the end )

Lastly, for feedback I’m mostly looking for ways to improve the practice guide. Since this forum contains such a wealth of information, simple links would do just fine. A little commentary on the piece I chose (Sun Flowers) would be helpful too!

Best,
Seely

[bella musica]

Hey, sounds great!  I think I'll try it too with my new pieces.  I have experience the same challenges as you described.  I think my problem is that I'm too impatient!  Once I can sort of play a piece, I like to let it fly once, just to see what it's like.  Then I do it again, and again... I've been working on breaking this habit and am somewhat improved, but still need more discipline!

One thought I had - don't make it too complicated.  That is a lot of stuff to remember while you are practicing.  I would see if I could get everything to fit onto one page, then print that page out and keep it on the music rack of my piano where I can read it before each practice session.

[Motrax]

A very worthy endeavor! I have very little to add - you summed it up very well seely! I'd just like to confirm the fact that to break a bad habit, one must think in terms of breaking it for a single week (which isn't so tough) as opposed to breaking it forever, which seems like a rather daunting task.

Your method is how I jumped from about 4 hours a week of practice to 4 hours a day! I decided to try learning a piece in one week - to meet that goal, I had to practice 4 hours a day. After that one grueling week of practice, my laziness vanished altogether.

Good luck! 

- M

[bella musica]

Wow!  Now I'm really going to try this!  If I can do anything to get rid of my laziness forever, I will bless pianostreet.com, and more specifically, seely and motrax too, for the rest of my life! 

[stevie]

Special thanks to Stevie for being insightful and Bernhard for being funny.

  'preciate it

i had a similar ideology in mind, much procrastination was involved over which way to practice...that i actually neglected actually *practicing* itself, hope noone else falls into this randomly ironic situation.

[bernhard]

For the moment I will just add this to your plan: After you break down the piece into small sections, always start by working on the most difficult sections. This way they get to be practised the most, and the other sections will feel really easy (even if they are not).

I am looking forward to your progress reports.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[Motrax]

Well actually, last semester, I did just as you describe, Stevie. 

I was having a great deal of difficulty with a particular Chopin nocturne - I loved the piece at first, but as soon as I learned it, I felt as though I was simply unable to express anything with it. The notes were fine, but the music always sounded rather bland and boring under my fingers.

I would try to play the piece forwards and backwards in my head as I walked from place to place (I walk around a lot - I live on a pretty large college campus), trying to hear the music in different ways in my mind. An immediate result of this was that I felt unable to actually sit down and play the piece before I stumbled upon a good idea for it, so I went about 2 weeks without ever playing it. And as my generally lazy nature dictated, since I wasn't ready to touch the keyboard for the nocturne, I felt unable to touch the keyboard for any reason.

So I went about 2 weeks without practicing, although I certainly thought about my repertoire a great deal . Much to my surrpise, when I finally got back to practicing, it only took an hour or so to regain what I assumed I had lost during those two weeks.

My hypothoses (and don't use this as an excuse not to practice!) is that as long as I keep music at the forefront of my mind, I can go an extended period of time without playing it (assuming I'm already technically comfortable with it). However, the moment my mind is really diverted from music (and this is hard to define, really, because there seem to be a number of levels of consciousness where one thinks about music), my fingers turn to twigs when I try to play a piece I haven't touched, irregardless of the time since I last played it. This seems to be the reason why I can learn and memorize a piece in a week and forget it in as short a time, or I can learn a piece in a week and be able to sit down and play it three months later without having touched it since then.

Hope that made a bit of sense. 

- M

(I'd like to add that I agree with Bernhard - he posted while I was posting, so I missed that when I started typing.)

[cjp_piano]

 This experiment is very similar to what I've been doing recently, but I didn't realize I was really doing it until I read your post  . . .

After finishing my Graduate work, I haven't had the stress, deadlines, performances, juries, etc.  When I sit down to "practice", I haven't really approached it as practicing, even though that's what it is.  I've just approached is as really wanting to learn a great piece the right way.  No teacher, no performance deadlines, nothing.

This is what I've been doing . .  .

1.  Since my goal is to make music, I aim for playing notes and rhythms as accurately as I can as soon as I can (idealy the first read-through), always performing and being expressive. 

2.  I also practice just small sections at a time, occassionally starting from the end or most difficult part. 

3.  I resist the urge to keep speeding up.  I usually have big blocks of free time and don't even look at the clock for long periods of time.

4.  I often "waste" time just being in this weird sort of zone where I repeat a very small section or motive at least 30 times, listening for specific notes and what they sound like rhythmically, melodically, and harmonically in relation to the other notes.   

5. I think about the music often.  For example, I sing it in the shower, I imagine myself playing it, I visualize the page, I picture what a really great performance of the piece would look like and what it would sound like.

Results?

Good news -- I've learned MUCH faster than I had before with MUCH less actual time practicing.  I've noticed that my playing is much more relaxed, allowing me to express more freely and easily.  I've memorized music without TRYING to so much.  My sight-reading has improved a great deal. I have more confidence that I can probably play anything!  Ok, I really don't have an ego.

Bad news -- Since I didn't have a performance to prepare for, or a deadline to meet, I haven't done this with one complete piece yet     I've played several pages of a piece, or the most difficult part, but not an entire work. 

In conclusion -- Maybe I need to get on the ball and commit to an entire piece!  I'm excited to read about others. 

[alwaystheangel]

Special thanks to Stevie for being insightful and Bernhard for being funny.
  'preciate it

interesting little quoting  "mix up" stevie 

[Motrax]

...hehe, good eye! I missed that. 

[alwaystheangel]

...hehe, good eye! I missed that. 

*curtsies*   

[seely]

Thanks for everyones' input!

Here's a first draft guide. My comments are in quotes.


The Perfect Practice Guide v.2


----------------------------------------
Preparation:

1. Listen to a recording

2. Divide the piece into sections and subsections.

3. Note the relative level of difficulty of each section.

4. Work out fingering.

5. Mark up the piece as much as possible with regards to sharps/flats, dynamics, etc.

6. Review the piece and do as much mental memorization as possible.

7. Spend as much time as possible in the preparation stage. Move on once there is nothing left to do.

Step 6 for me is experimental, but is something I have high hopes for. I currently use several advanced memory techniques such as pegging in other aspects of my life, so I am aware of the broad ability of the human memory. I sometimes feel that in some passages of a piece I’m always stuttering as I try to read from the score. I do this because I’m too lazy to memorize sometimes. Also, I think if a piece were essentially memorized beforehand, practice will feel natural.

Practice:

1. Practice the piece for about 60 minutes a day, but never work against the clock.

2. Relax a little before playing. A mind in the relaxed state is more disposed to learning new material.

3. Sight read the piece first on day one, very slowly, while being fanatically careful to play accurately.

4. Start with the most difficult sections.

5. Before playing any section, mentally review it and ‘rememorize’ if you have to.

6. To practice a section, repeat it four to eight times before beginning to practice the next. When two sections have been practiced in this way, they should be joined and given two to four repititions as a whole. Ultimately, all the sections should be fitted together in this way. (?)

7. Resist the temptation to speed up. Practice slowly enough so that notes and timing are accurate. Try to practice in “slow motion” to mimic the finger movements of fast playing. (?)

8. Concentrate during every second of practice.

9. Practice without pedal.

10. Perform always, even when sight-reading. Always express something. Always use appropriate dynamics.

Point 6:

Is this the ideal way to go about practicing? Should I repeat a section, say, 50 times instead of 4? Perhaps I should use my own judgement - based on difficulty - for how much a section/subsection needs to be repeated.

Step 7:

I'm not too sure about how I should tackle speed. In some cases, it seems helpful to play fast, but to play very, very short sections until you're comfortable. Bernhard gave a tutorial in one thread explaining how to tackle the third movement of the Moonlight sonata, which consisted mostly of fast movements. Should I sometimes use that method in practice? Or should I focus more on slow practice? If the answers are too piece-depended (i.e. the answer is "it depends"), then answer them in regards to Sun Flowers (see original post)

Mental practice:

1. When not at the piano, find time to mentally practice.

2. Simply imitate normal practice but in your mind.

3. Imagine sections of the score, “feel” your fingers playing them, etc.

4. Hum the piece once in a while to keep your mind working on it.

I’ve done mental practice before with Prokofiev’s 7th Sonata. You know those last two pages of the third movement? Those are hell for an inexperienced player such as myself, but I noticed that when I was away from the piano I could actually imagine the movements going on in my head. In my brain, I could see and feel my left hand executing those jumps all over the keyboard. What’s fascinating is that I would mentally play over those last two pages a few times and each time I’d get better at it!

I still have a long ways to go, but it was fascinating to see how mental practice was in many ways just as effective as normal practice. So I’ll attempt daily mental practice on this experimental piece.

I’ve also solved math proofs in my sleep. When your mind struggles with something, it continues to work on it on the subconscious level.

----------------------------------------

Yes, these rules are incredibly basic, but that’s why they’ll work. I’ve developed bad habits because I have failed to recognize the most obvious and most effective good habits. I can work on specifics after the experiment.

[cjp_piano]

A few comments:

Practice

2. relax ALOT!!  Any and all tension in your body will hinder your playing in some way.

6.  This is a good way of practicing, the hard part is, as you've said, knowing how many times to repeat.  You should repeat it until it's easy and you don't have to think so hard about it.  But repeating too many times the same exact way can actually have a harmful effect (like when you speak a word over and over and over and after a while you forget how to spell the word and you don't even know what you're saying.)  -- if you've never done this, try it, it's wicked fun 

Anyway, when you're repeating a section over and over, change something slightly each time, or listen for something different each time - this will keep you engaged. 

7. You're right that sometimes practicing a section fast is actually easier than playing it slow.  This is because it's supposed to be fast, right?  It's supposed to be natural, that's how the composer played it.  If you need to practice a fast section slowly, figure out the motion/gesture that you will use in order to play it fast and then slow it down, so it's like you're playing in slow motion. 

I look forward to more!   

[stevie]

interesting little quoting  "mix up" stevie 

plus i secretly think you are superhot

sometimes we have these little fingerslips

tis jus the same with practicing, we must pick ourselves up and move on, and not be discouraged by our mistakes.

[alwaystheangel]

interesting little quoting  "mix up" stevie   

plus i secretly think you are superhot


sometimes we have these little fingerslips

tis jus the same with practicing, we must pick ourselves up and move on, and not be discouraged by our mistakes.

Like that one, I'm guessing?

[stevie]

ummm, i am stunned at both your looks, and personality.

Quite,

Ed

[lostinidlewonder]

Musical immaturity and insecurity, that is what makes people unnecessarily cycle through small passages of new pieces that they can play over and over again. During my own teaching sessions I am constantly putting students out of this comfort zone and forcing them to extend themselves, whether it be in reading, memorisation or technical excecution During lessons I am pretty much taking away security blankets and making students struggle a little. I compare practice sessions like a little child trying to swim, I let them drown a little and do the best they can but give them a hand now and then... it sounds so satanic but there is no other way.

I remember when I first learnt riding a bike I fell so many times but the only way I learnt was to keep trying even though it hurt mentally and physically! Piano unfortunatly has thousands of bicycle instances we have to face.

"Aim for the stars and you hit the moon, aim for the moon and you hit the sky, aim for the sky and you hit the trees, aim for the trees and you hit yourself in the foot." The quote goes something like that. Musically this means you should set yourself more bars than you normally would because basic human nature causes us to fall short of our expectations always. Saying you will memorise 20 bars per day and you will probably do 10. I always set tasks when I sit down to practice, I don't say ok I will practice for 1 hour, I say, I will practice until I achieve x, where x is any SPECIFIC improvement you are making to your playing.

Focusing on specific improvements instead of time improves your study efficiency imo. Music cannot be restricted to time, it must be given as much time as it needs. I really believe that with 1 hour of practice on the keyboard there is really only about 5 minutes or so of "ability changing" practice, that is practice which makes changes in us, makes us go, OH thats how you do it its so easy! But this only comes after a build up of practice, so I mention to my more advanced students to notice when you are at this state and to try to quicken access to this state and never stop practicing until you feel you have reached this.

Conscious to Muscular to sound memory, inspect how that works for you as much as you can. The more you understand its workings inside you, the more you improve your study efficiency.

[seely]

A few comments:

Practice

2. relax ALOT!!  Any and all tension in your body will hinder your playing in some way.

Good advice. Just today I focused on this advice while practicing and I noticed that I was occasionally tensing up other parts of my body other than my arms and hands. There would be passages where i would tense up my legs - only a little, but it was noticeable. I tried relaxing my entire body and playing felt more natural. I can see how this will be a very good habit to develop.

6.  This is a good way of practicing, the hard part is, as you've said, knowing how many times to repeat.  You should repeat it until it's easy and you don't have to think so hard about it.  But repeating too many times the same exact way can actually have a harmful effect (like when you speak a word over and over and over and after a while you forget how to spell the word and you don't even know what you're saying.)  -- if you've never done this, try it, it's wicked fun 

I think personal judgement might override a specific set of rules here. I probably wouldn't want to limit myself to a specific number.

Although, I think consciously repeating small sections -- however many times you do it -- will have a positive effect -- anything to tear me away from the habit of playing an unfinished piece as a whole. I'm sure the window of effectiveness is fairly large, so I think I only need to stay away from the extremes of repeating zero times and repeating a thousand times.

Anyway, when you're repeating a section over and over, change something slightly each time, or listen for something different each time - this will keep you engaged.

Some people say that the mind can only occupy one conscious thought at a time. So if you want to play a passage with perfect dynamics, tempo, rhythm, and articulation, you have to isolate each during practice. That is, you have to play as passage a few times with 100% focus on dynamics, then repeat with 100% focus on tempo, and so on. The only other way to play perfectly is if you subconsciously import these skills from previous experience, something a novice like myself cannot rely on.

I want to set up a specific list of elements to focus on for my piece, Sun Flowers. I will do just as you said and focus on a different element in each repetition. A specific list has the advantage over abstract advice because it's possible to effectively follow and implement it.

Such a list could be:

1. tempo

2. dynamics

3. articulation

4. something specific to that passage (such as emphasizing appropriate notes. e.g. In the agitato section of Rachmaninoff's prelude in C# minor, you can dynamically exaggerate the upper, melodic notes.)

7. You're right that sometimes practicing a section fast is actually easier than playing it slow.  This is because it's supposed to be fast, right?  It's supposed to be natural, that's how the composer played it.  If you need to practice a fast section slowly, figure out the motion/gesture that you will use in order to play it fast and then slow it down, so it's like you're playing in slow motion.

Thanks for the advice. I think that as long as I play in "slow motion", I will make tremendously positive progress towards better habits. I am still curious about the necessity and effectiveness of "fast" practice.

I need to look around these forums some more to be able to convey what I'm trying to say -- I'm still uncertain about what "fast" practice entails and when it's necessary, but I remember reading a post by bernhard on how to practice the opening lines of Moonlight III. That was "fast" practice...

[cjp_piano]

Good advice. Just today I focused on this advice while practicing and I noticed that I was occasionally tensing up other parts of my body other than my arms and hands. There would be passages where i would tense up my legs - only a little, but it was noticeable. I tried relaxing my entire body and playing felt more natural. I can see how this will be a very good habit to develop.

That is what has been happening to me recently.  I finally feel like there's no tension in my arms, wrists, elbows, and shoulders.  But then I'm realizing it in other places: sometimes I "take inventory" of my body while I'm in the middle of a piece and I realize that I've been clenching my jaw or something. 

I think personal judgement might override a specific set of rules here. I probably wouldn't want to limit myself to a specific number.

Yes, which is what I was trying to say 

Some people say that the mind can only occupy one conscious thought at a time. So if you want to play a passage with perfect dynamics, tempo, rhythm, and articulation, you have to isolate each during practice. That is, you have to play as passage a few times with 100% focus on dynamics, then repeat with 100% focus on tempo, and so on.

Yes, as you repeat a section listening for articulation, your body will get in the habit of doing it that way.  Then you listen for dynamics, and your body gets used to that, too.  Then once playing that section is a physical habit, you can ask yourself again while you're playing, "is it still as staccato as it should be? Am I growing to a forte?"  etc.   

Thanks for the advice. I think that as long as I play in "slow motion", I will make tremendously positive progress towards better habits. I am still curious about the necessity and effectiveness of "fast" practice.

I need to look around these forums some more to be able to convey what I'm trying to say -- I'm still uncertain about what "fast" practice entails and when it's necessary, but I remember reading a post by bernhard on how to practice the opening lines of Moonlight III. That was "fast" practice...

I'm not too sure, but I know that to figure out how you can play it fast, you have to play it fast, right?  Then you can play it in slow motion so you can hear it all, examine it, and refine it.  Also, we should always get as close as we can to "performing" a piece as soon as we can.  Not to be taken the wrong way, of course.  This doesn't mean just rush through learning a piece so you can play it fast and incorrectly.  It's actually the opposite: it means being careful to do everything exactly right as soon as possible so that bad habits are not formed.

So I think "fast" practice is good.  Instead of slowing down a fast section to practice it, why not just play a lot less of it? (4 notes out of the 30-note run, or 2 chords out of the 12). 

I did this the other day with a long run.  I figured out the fingering without playing it on the piano. Then i just started with the first few notes, then added one or two more notes (thinking about where they were first, of course).  I kept adding until I had the whole section.  I never played a wrong note or missed a fingering, and it took less time than if I would have sight-read it real slow and then keep fixing things!

[Motrax]

  Some people say that the mind can only occupy one conscious thought at a time. So if you want to play a passage with perfect dynamics, tempo, rhythm, and articulation, you have to isolate each during practice. That is, you have to play as passage a few times with 100% focus on dynamics, then repeat with 100% focus on tempo, and so on.

Although I do agree that we can only think of one thing at a time, the mind has a way of condensing a lot into a single thought. If one can capture the entire musical effect into a single thought (which really lies somewhere between conscious thought and emotion... I couldn't begin to explain my way through that... ), it becomes easier to work on the music as a whole, rather than having to break it down into little bits.

My main issue with practicing a single section without the entire musical intent in mind is that it's easy to lose sight of other aspects of the music. For example, there's a Scriabin etude I'm working on with some very rapid staccato notes that (unwillingly) sound legato at the tempo I'm reaching for. When I slow down to think about my staccato, I don't just think "play more staccato." I think of an entire sound that I want, which includes the dynamics, atriculation, etc. I do my best not to lose sight of the music as a whole, because I believe that's quite detrimental in the long run.

Wonderful discussion!

- M