Chopin and his avoidance of Bb major

[orlandopiano]

B flat major would seem to be a fairly common key, but Chopin seemed to steer away from it for his romantic salon-style pieces. He used it in his Polish music but the only example I can think of outside of this is the Prelude in opus 28, likely only because he had no choice.

Is this just a coincidence, or did B flat major not quite jive with Chopin and his romantic moods?

[phil13]

It was probably not his favorite key. That seems to have been reserves for F minor and C# minor.

Let's see.. 1 prelude, 3 or 4 polonaises, 2 mazurkas, "La ci darem mano" Variations (that's the only big work), Ludovic Variations. That's it.

Phil

[orlandopiano]

It was probably not his favorite key. That seems to have been reserves for F minor and C# minor.

Let's see.. 1 prelude, 3 or 4 polonaises, 2 mazurkas, "La ci darem mano" Variations (that's the only big work), Ludovic Variations. That's it.

Phil

One of those was written when he was 17, the others are all his "Polish" pieces. Out of the Nocturnes, Ballades, Waltzes, Etudes, Scherzi, Sonatas, Impromptus... what over 80 pieces?  And no B flat major. 

[mikey6]

There's a few -
a lost ecossaise
2 Polonaise's without Opus
2 Mazurka's without Opus
Cantabile
"La ci darem Variations" op.2
Mazurka op.7 no.1
op.12 variations
Mazurka op.17 no.1
Mazurka op.24 no.4
Prelude op.28 no.21
Polonaise op.71 no.2 (posth)

That's according to complete works list.

[orlandopiano]

There's a few -
a lost ecossaise
2 Polonaise's without Opus
2 Mazurka's without Opus
Cantabile
"La ci darem Variations" op.2
Mazurka op.7 no.1
op.12 variations
Mazurka op.17 no.1
Mazurka op.24 no.4
Prelude op.28 no.21
Polonaise op.71 no.2 (posth)

That's according to complete works list.

Please read my post again.

[apion]

In contrast, B Flat was Brahms' favorite key. 

[kriskicksass]

B-flat Major is one of the least pianistic keys, that's probably why Chopin avoided it.

[invictious]

B-flat Major is one of the least pianistic keys, that's probably why Chopin avoided it.

So that's why Brahms kept on using it?

Well check out some of the 20th century russian composers, especially the least pianist works (prokofiev), about 80% of them are not in Bflat Major or in G minor.

[chopinfan_22]

His Ballade Op. 23 is in g minor, the relative minor key of b-flat, if that counts for anything.

[Nightscape]

If you use Bb major or minor you can use that really, really low Bb at the bottom of the piano which is an especially rich note and adds fullness to the bass.... sounds better than the A next to it anyway.  Le Gibet by Ravel is a good example of using this low Bb to it's fullest...

Did Chopin write any pieces in D# minor or Ab minor?  I don't see those keys coming up too often either.  Ravel's Ondine is in C# major, which is a bit of an unusual key.

Actually, yesterday I was thinking about the keys Beethoven uses in his piano sonatas, and it seems G major comes up almost twice as much as any other key.  And he even has one in F# major!

[kriskicksass]

His Ballade Op. 23 is in g minor, the relative minor key of b-flat, if that counts for anything.

G minor is more pianistic than B-flat Major because tonic is on a white key. G minor feels like playing in D Major rather than B-flat Major because you don't constantly have to move into the keybed to strike the black key tonic.

[apion]

If you use Bb major or minor you can use that really, really low Bb at the bottom of the piano which is an especially rich note and adds fullness to the bass....

Yep, that's the first note uttered by the piano in Brahms' 2nd PC ! 

[orlandopiano]

G minor is more pianistic than B-flat Major because tonic is on a white key. G minor feels like playing in D Major rather than B-flat Major because you don't constantly have to move into the keybed to strike the black key tonic.

Bb major does indeed have the most awkward "5-finger position", but for Chopin's spread out voicings this is not an issue. In fact, for Chopin's style of writing, C major is actually the least pianistic of all keys which might have something to do with the small number of pieces in that key as well.

[bella musica]

Chopin like E major because the arrangement of the sharps was comfortable for a relaxed hand position...

[mikey6]

Yep, that's the first note uttered by the piano in Brahms' 2nd PC ! 

I think that was a publicity stunt to show off the 'new' lower register of the piano.  It's still cool though.

[kriskicksass]

Bb major does indeed have the most awkward "5-finger position", but for Chopin's spread out voicings this is not an issue. In fact, for Chopin's style of writing, C major is actually the least pianistic of all keys which might have something to do with the small number of pieces in that key as well.

I never really bothered to think about it that way. All I know is that I still have nightmares about playing Beethoven and similar composers in B-flat. But you're definitely right, classical writing is totally different from Chopin's style.