Emotional/personal detachment... recommended ?

[m1469]

I have been thinking ... for a really long time it seems like ... LOL.  I can be pretty good as a salesperson when I flip a certain switch inside of me.  It's something I used to do.  And what that takes for me is to become emotionally detached from the experience of making a sale.  I feel focused and these things on what is taking place, and I feel quite sure that I will sell the product, but it's not personal.

Now, my music, and particularly the music that I make with the piano is another story, it seems.  For some reason I feel quite emotionally attached even when I am playing music composed by other people (well, I do have some hunches as to some of the "whys").  But, I was thinking about treating it more like I would a sale when I perform.  That was mentioned a few months ago.

But, what are your thoughts on this in general ?  I am not talking about how much somebody weaves around or not... I am just talking about how personally one takes each performance. 

In short, is it fundamentally a disservice to the music and composer to be personally and emotionally detached from the performance ?


m1469

[will]

Depends who is listening.

m1469, to whom are you trying to sell your playing?

[ted]

For me it is just another choice, m1469, an option. I CHOOSE to what degree I shall use emotions, intellect and so on. It has to be said though that "emotion", although I do use it if I want to, has nothing to do with those transporting mental states which provide the reason for my playing the instrument.

I suppose it would be easy to become accustomed to making the same choice every time, just as some improvisers play the same old cadences day in and day out until their initial mental effect is long forgotten. After a while a habit is established and no choice appears to exist. In the same way, and I'm guessing here because I do not perform, perhaps concert artists, in the interest of safety and professionalism, habituate the same old combinations of emotion and intellect long after the reason for their use has been forgotten.

I dread to think of arriving at this state of affairs; I would rather risk a new choice and crash. Then again, that's easy for me to say I guess.

[rc]

The whole reason I got into music was because of the emotional attachment.  That's the whole point of it for me, so I'm always trying to express something through it.  I like to think it makes a difference in the performance, since it affects my mindset which would directly affect the interpretation.  The emotional attachment is what brings all the inanimate strings & hammers, tones and rhythmic values to life.

I'm detached in certain phases of practice...

Or do you mean specifically the outcome of the performace, like getting very upset when things go wrong or letting worries of perfection interrupt the moment?  Getting the ego all tied up in it...  In that sense, I try not to take myself too seriously.  Actually, I'm usually half expecting to bomb, which for some reason helps me relax.  Humility I suppose, I've bombed enough that it's stopped bothering me, and that seems to have evolved into not bombing anymore.

[m1469]

For me it is just another choice, m1469, an option. I CHOOSE to what degree I shall use emotions, intellect and so on.

I think I am starting to get this.  I have read this from you somewhere on the forum awhile back... perhaps in more than one place.   Thanks.

[thorn]

I think you need to get emotionally and personally involved with every piece you play.

If you don't give any part of yourself to the music, then you can't expect to get anything out of it.

[counterpoint]

If you don't give any part of yourself to the music, then you can't expect to get anything out of it.

Yes, that's true, but...

It's not you, who composed the piece, and therefore, you don't have to express your own feelings, but the feelings of the composer .

That's rather difficult sometimes, but that's what I expect from a good musical interpretation.

[ada]

Everyone talks about "emotional attachment".

But what do you mean by that?

 I think we all know, but how do you personally describe that state?

[counterpoint]

how do you personally describe that state?

Deep breathing, looking up to the ceiling, make great gestures...

No, let's get serious:

emotional "attachment" means for me, that the expression of every single note is recognized by the pianist and played in a way, that the audience is touched by the music, not by the capering of the pianist.

[lostinidlewonder]

What does it mean to be "Emotionally attached" when playing music? This definition needs to be clear otherwise we will tangent off in all different confusing directions.

To me when I play music which I like, then I am attached to the music, as simple as that. When I play music I do not like then there is almost like a barrier between myself and the music, I simply produce the sound, use the general procedure of expression and etc that we find in all other music. But music I love I play often and for my whole life, how it changes with me, how the way I express the music matures and becomes my own, this might be a definition of emotional attached playing? When You dedicate so much time to your little musical "plant" and watch it flower and bloom as it ages, and watch it wither and weaken as you age. That can be a morbid image for some.

[pianistimo]

one time in church - i was accompanying my husband on a piece that we'd performed a thousand times.  i hadn't slept as much as i'd like to have the night before - so i went into a sort of 'programmed' mode and just played (usually i don't do this - but this time i did).  i forget exactly what happened but i totally lost my spot and everything because i went off into this sleep mode and probably was the first and last time i fell asleep at the piano.  it was kind of embarrassing because i had to check two pages instead of one to see where i was.

on the other side, the first time i heard brahms op 118 #2 intermezzo i immediately cried inside .  it was so beautiful and heart rending.  then, everytime i played it i could feel tears comingto my eyes.  this would seriously hinder my playing this piece - so i started trying to think of the most boring things that i could - and harden myself so i could get through the piece.  basically, i was thinking - if i cry and get so emotional  - the audience won't 'get it' and will think it is something off of 'mad tv' too.  how can music affect a person this much without reading an awful lot into it.  that is where musicians are at.  they usually do relate their music to something so it is meaningful. 

thankfully for me, i rarely make myself cry at my own playing.  usually it's not as good as my piano teacher.  with listening to other pianists - i am more likely to be emotionally affected.

[bench warmer]

 
I remember reading about a scientific experiment that was performed w/ pianists.

The scientists  would hook them up to the machine that recorded brain waves when they played. They then had each pianist play various composers' music. When the data was analyzed  the experimenters saw a strong correlation of brain wave patterns of each pianist to every other pianist playing a particualr composer. So each person exhibited Chopin brain wave patterns or Beethoven or Bach patterns depending on whom they were playing.
 Looks like the emotional attachment happens in some form automatically.

Apparently we are not just what we eat but Who we play!

[counterpoint]

Apparently we are not just what we eat but Who we play!

That's my experience too 

[moi_not_toi]

Your problem is a position that some people would kill to be in.

you are atached emotionaly, and to me that's how it should be.
To be emotional about something is good, but don't let it go to far, so far that you can't do anything different with it and that you can't take any criticism or suggestions.

Think of it like a friend. You like it for it's personality or looks or both. But there's always something that is not to your standards. There's something that you want to change. You'll keep trying until something happens. Either you get sick of it or they get sick of it, or you both just decide to stop trying or they do change.

Music is like that. You want to change it to your standards and feelings. The difference is that it can't refuse, but your teacher speaks for it, telling you what to and not to do. Either you get sick of the music, or your teacher gets sick of you, or you both agree on something and it sounds beautiful.


This is most likely wrong.
Correct me if I am.

[ramseytheii]

Yes, that's true, but...

It's not you, who composed the piece, and therefore, you don't have to express your own feelings, but the feelings of the composer .

That's rather difficult sometimes, but that's what I expect from a good musical interpretation.

Some people say that for them the key to interpretation is imagining that you are the composer, but that just doesn't work for me!  It does for many people however.
I just want to point out, as far as anyone can identify feelings in music, they are identifiable by all, everyone has the capacity to experience those feelings.  The composer who writes about falling in love, is not the only person who knows what that feels like.  I mildly object to 'composer's feelings,' because in a sense those feelings are not possessed by one person.  Besides, how often do you go about everyday life trying to explain and communicate other people's states of mind?  Who would want to talk to somebody that never says what they think themselves?

Walter Ramsey

[journeyyourmind]

It's not a bad idea to have an understanding of the composers backround, but imo it is going to far to try and be the composer, you need to see how those emotions, feelings, or circumstances can apply to you. It is deeper to have a personal meaning then to try and feel someone elses, and this sends a message across much more effectively. Of course, if you have similiar experience you can apply this much more strongly, but you can't try to feel something that you truly don't understand yet.

This backs up the point that the composer is not the only one who can feel alot of those feelings.

[m1469]

m1469, to whom are you trying to sell your playing?

Well, I have been thinking about this a little more.  It's funny because I had started a thread on this awhile ago (maybe a year and a half ago... ? )  "For whom do you play ?" and I don't know that I ever came to any real conclusions at that time -- though there were so many wonderful thoughts expressed within that thread.

But, I think that I came to a conclusion a few hours ago, actually.  However, I daren't say what that conclusion is 


m1469

[arensky]

I have been thinking ... for a really long time it seems like ... LOL.  I can be pretty good as a salesperson when I flip a certain switch inside of me.  It's something I used to do.  And what that takes for me is to become emotionally detached from the experience of making a sale.  I feel focused and these things on what is taking place, and I feel quite sure that I will sell the product, but it's not personal.

Now, my music, and particularly the music that I make with the piano is another story, it seems.  For some reason I feel quite emotionally attached even when I am playing music composed by other people (well, I do have some hunches as to some of the "whys").  But, I was thinking about treating it more like I would a sale when I perform.  That was mentioned a few months ago.

But, what are your thoughts on this in general ?  I am not talking about how much somebody weaves around or not... I am just talking about how personally one takes each performance. 

In short, is it fundamentally a disservice to the music and composer to be personally and emotionally detached from the performance ?


m1469

I think you have to be emotionally detached at a certain level in order to be a good performer. If you're too emotionally involved in what you're doing the art will suffer. It's the performer's job to project and communicate the emotions and feelings inherent in a piece of music, not to wallow in them. That is self indulgent and unprofessional. If you are really being the angst and tragedy of a sad piece, you might get caught up in that, and the piece will derail. Singers understand this concept better than pianists, because if they feel the emotion too much, they literaly get choked up, and can't sing. They learn to project the emotional content in a detached way, so that the audience is gratified and moved. The performer must keep a certain distance from the emotional core of a piece of music. The danger of course is becoming so removed from the emotional core that you become a cold and unfeeling performer. There is a balance between the two extremes that each of us must find for ourselves to be an effective performing artist. Yin n' yang and all that...

                             

So I think that your experience in sales is very valuble and applicable to performing. You will find the right balance if you look for it and explore the possibilities intelligently!