Least Favorite Composers

[ahinton]

And people, please spare me the incessant "but what about West Side Story? What about Rhapsody in Blue?" First of all, those are the ONLY "great" masterworks of those composers, and even those pieces come nowhere near to appealing. I despise even them. They have a lazy, annoying, jazzy sound that is unequivocally American. They sound superficial. American music by these composers isn't deep.

If you read what I wrote (and I know that you are not just addressing your thoughts to me), you would have appreciated that I am not trying to make out that West Side Story is on the same level as stage works of the order of Siegfried, Salome, Doktor Faust or whatever (such an idea would be beyond absurd, as I'm quite sure Leonard Bernstein would have been the first to admit). West Side Story is, to me, at the top of its own tree - not at the top of anyone else's.

Rhapsody in Blue is not, to my mind, Gershwin's greatest work. The Second Rhapsody, Piano Concerto (which, sadly, I missed hearing Michael Finnissy play just down the road from me in Bristol a few years ago!), Cuban Overture and parts of Porgy and Bess are on another level altogether. But, that said, Gershwin was not trying to pretend to be some kind of American Strauss, Schönberg or whoever. Do please try to take him (or leave him ) on his own terms rather than other ones.

Carter (whom you mention) and Sessions (whom you don't) certainly absorbed rather more from Europe than some of their contemporary and near-contemporary compatriots, yet Carter feels that he is an "American" composer - which (agreeing with the very different Virgil Thomson) to him means that he is an American citizen and a composer and he writes just what he wants to (the "land of the free", yes?). Carter has had far more success in Europe than in his own country until fairly recently. Americans should be ashamed of that fact. Some of them are. His masterpiece from the late 1960s - the Concerto for Orchestra - was commissioned and first conducted by - a guy called Leonard Bernstein...

Best,

Alistair

[phil13]

There is nothing more odious to me than American music.
~Max~

How about MacDowell?

Phil

[Nightscape]

I fail to see how something sounding "jazzy" somehow demeans it....

For me, Copland's music has far more depth and certainly more originality than the music of Gottschalk, MacDowell, Liebermann....  I remember listening to the second movement of Copland's Red Pony Suite and almost had a tear in my eye, the music so expertly described the thoughts, admirations, and feelings of a young innocent child, it reminded me of my own childhood.  Copland's populist period music, to which the Red Pony belongs, is more about the practical side of life, describing people, situations and events as they were in America at the time.  It is quite different from the often abstract sound paintings produced by European countries....  in fact it is so different as to be uncomparable.

[Nightscape]

Just out of curiosity, how do you feel about the American composers Steve Reich, or John Adams?  It's a quite different sound world from the mid-century American works.

[mephisto]

As for some other American composers who I DO like, they aren't typical. Liebermann, Hinton, Stevenson, Rzewski, Carter, Feldman and many others show greater influence of Russian, French and German composers than they do the American ones. I also like listening to Gottschalk, because even though his music isn't serious, it has a very distinct romantic style I find much more appealing than anything Bernstein, Copland and Gershwin wrote.

~Max~

If you are refering to Ronald Stevenson and Hinton on this forum, i am quite sure they are British and NOT American.

[ahinton]

If you are refering to Ronald Stevenson and Hinton on this forum, i am quite sure they are British and NOT American.

Oui, c'est vrai! Nous sommes ECOSSAISES!!

Best,

Alistair

[mephisto]

Oui, c'est vrai! Nous sommes ECOSSAISES!!

Best,

Alistair

Oh you are Scottish. To bad

[bflatminor24]

SCREW YOU ALL!

  I'm so high.

muwahaha ALISTAIR HINTON IS SCOTTISH. WHAT A SCOT MAN SCOTLAND HAR HAR HAR.

~Max~

[Nightscape]

Do all Scottish people have twirly moustaches?  If so, can they pass out from spinning them too much?

[ahinton]

Oh you are Scottish. To bad

Not for me.

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

SCREW YOU ALL!

  I'm so high.

muwahaha ALISTAIR HINTON IS SCOTTISH.

It's not exactly news. My forename is self-evidently Scottish. I've been Scots all my life and quite a few people have been aware of that fact for quite some time.

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

Do all Scottish people have twirly moustaches?  If so, can they pass out from spinning them too much?

The answer to your first question is no; indeed, not every Scot has a moustache in any case (and where, incidentally, did you get that absurd idea?). The answer to your second is accordingly applicable only to those Scots who do possess moustaches of the kind you mention, although I have no idea as to the answer; you'd presumably have to interview every Scot who happens to have one in order to find out. That said, however, I would be surprised if there were any scientific evidence to support the idea that the effect of such spinning as you mention would be any different for Scots that it would for those of any other nationality.

THAT said, I am entirely perplexed as to why anyone would imagine that anything in those questions or answers relates to anyone's "Least Favorite Composers"...

Best,

Alistair

[mephisto]

Not for me.

Best,

Alistair

Just for the record, it was not to be taken to serious. I have nothing against scotts. I know one and he is very nice.

[ahinton]

Just for the record, it was not to be taken to serious. I have nothing against scotts. I know one and he is very nice.

Don't worry; no offence was taken (at least not by me). But I am sad to learn that, as a Norwegian, you know only ONE Scot!

Best,

Alistair

[bflatminor24]

Don't worry; no offence was taken (at least not by me). But I am sad to learn that, as a Norwegian, you know only ONE Scot!

Best,

Alistair

I love you Alistair. Go Scotland. GO ROB ROY!

~Max~

[moi_not_toi]

I love you Alistair. Go Scotland. GO ROB ROY!

~Max~

Amen. GO ROB ROY!!!!

[moi_not_toi]

Amen. GO ROB ROY!!!!

Anyway, back on the subject...

I really hate John Adam's Piano music. Nixon in China was great, but to have the same idea on piano is quite disgusting. At least in Philip Glass he stays the same. John Adams doesn't even have the decency to keep it minimal!

[chopinfan_22]

Schumann is possibly the best piano composer after Beethoven and Chopin.

I'm going to have to disagree there. I like Schumann, and I enjoy playing his compositions, but you must also consider Liszt, Ravel, Rachmaninoff, Debussy, and Schubert.

[Nightscape]

John Adams' piano music is amazing!  It's extremely beautiful, get a good recording of China Gates and you'll see what I mean (sort of Debussy-like). He hasn't produced a whole lof of piano music, but I have recordings of Phrygian Gates, China Gates, and Hallelujah Junction.

But remember that John Adams isn't really a minimalist like Glass and Reich.  He's a post-minimalist, meaning that he uses some aspects of minimalism, but he tends to have a large amount of material, color, and contrast in his pieces.

[superstition2]

Cage
Schumann, Robert
Bartok
Berlioz
Schumann, Clara
Thalberg
Moeran
Silver
MacDowell
Beach
Korngold
Copland
Rutter, John
Williams, John
Reinecke
Stenhammar
Szymanowski


Sometimes tolerable:

Schoenberg
Rautavaara
Schubert
Villa Lobos
Shostakovich*


*I like some of his symphonic work. His 15th symphony is great, for instance.

[arensky]

I though i posted in this thread, must have accidentally deleted it.  Here goes again...

Milton Babbit

Wallingford Rieger

Roger Sessions

Max Reger

Benjamin Godard

Ludwig Spohr

Auguste Durand


I'm sure I can think of more, but I would rather think of composers I like. 

[arensky]

I though i posted in this thread, must have accidentally deleted it.  Here goes again...

Milton Babbit

Wallingford Rieger

Roger Sessions

Max Reger

Ferrucio Busoni

Benjamin Godard

Ludwig Spohr

Auguste Durand


I'm sure I can think of more, but I would rather think of composers I like. 

I am removing Busoni from this list; I don't like his music, but it isn't in the least favorite category.

[allthumbs]

John Cage, of course 

Hey, I love his 4'33" piece. I wish they would play that in the malls instead of that Muzak crap that's played.

[burstroman]

Referring to their piano music:  Phillip Glass and Reynaldo Hahn.

[steve_m]

j

[pies]

1. Sorabji
2. A. Hinton
3. Ying Yang Twinz

[ahinton]

1. Sorabji
2. A. Hinton
3. Ying Yang Twinz

Well, that will save you quite a lot of listening time, won't it? I can't help wondering how much of their music you've heard, though...

Best,

Alistair

[mephisto]

Max Reger

Poor Reger. What has he ever done to you

[pianochild]

Which composers are your least favorite? I'll start by listing mine...Here we go. In order:

1. Stockhausen
2. Cage
3. Milhaud
4. Stravinsky
5. Bartok
6. Xenakis
7. Bernstein
8. Copland
9. Gershwin                     <-------------------------------------------
10. Khatchaturian
11. Kabalevsky
12. Aaron Jay Kernis

I think they're UGLY soundin'! Ugh. Anyone else is fine.

~Max~

You dontt like Gershwin, what about Rhapsody in blue? !!!
Stravinsky (rites of spring?) im sure you could not compose anything like that.(and its lovely)
Apart from Coplands piano music what about Appalachian spring and others?

[bflatminor24]

You dontt like Gershwin, what about Rhapsody in blue? !!!
Stravinsky (rites of spring?) im sure you could not compose anything like that.(and its lovely)
Apart from Coplands piano music what about Appalachian spring and others?

Since when does one have to be able to compose BETTER music in order to dislike others? So if you dislike Liszt, you must be able to compose BETTER than Liszt did, otherwise your opinion is invalid?

What nonsense is that? What kind of inane logic are you employing, pianochild? Personal preference has nothing to do with superior ability. I never claimed to compose better than anyone, and I don't even compose at all.

And as for your obligatory "b-b-b-but what about rhapsody in blue and rites of spring?" question, my point still stands. I dislike those composers, and I have yet to hear something of theirs that grabs me. So far, nothing appealing. Not interested in jazzy cliche music nor am I interested in cacophic orchestral music.

~Max~

[arensky]

Poor Reger. What has he ever done to you

Nothing. But most of his music makes me want to leave the hall or immediately change the radio station. I've tried to get into him, my wife likes him. I did play a clarinet and piano piece that was quite charming and pretty, very Schumannesque. Is there more of his music like that? Those 40 minute variation pieces are unbearable to me. This is just my reaction, obviously his music is well written and many people like it, I don't want to outlaw it. Who knows, I may wake up someday and love him! This aside, I love his reply to the newspaer critic who lambasted him.

"Dear sir, I am sitting in smallest room in my house. Your review is before me. It will soon be behind me." 

                                                  

[bernhard]

I did play a clarinet and piano piece that was quite charming and pretty, very Schumannesque. Is there more of his music like that?

Yes, there is.

Try "Traume am Kamin" ("Dreaming at the fireside"), 0p 143 - 12 miniatures most lyrical and Schumanesque. I especially like no. 1, no. 2, no. 11, and no. 12.

His "Improvisations" op. 18 and "Humoresques" op. 20 are also nice.

Markus Pawlik has recorded them all for Naxos.

Reger also wrote some very beautiful easy pieces, highly romantic and of superior music quality which would make excellent repertory choices for late intermediate / early advanced students: "Album for young people" op. 17 and "10 little instructional pieces" op. 44.

Enjoy!

(I do agree that some of his more advanced stuff can be quite dull though.)

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[JCarey]

1. Sorabji
2. A. Hinton
3. Ying Yang Twinz

Ah, trolls. They never cease to bore me. And I sincerely doubt this one has even heard anything by Hinton, which makes it all the more uninteresting.

Here is my list, in no particular order:

1. John Cage

I think most will agree with me here. I can't say I've ever found much interest in anything he's written. And I'm quite hesitant to consider his ultra-modern works like 4'33" "music".

2. Xenakis

Though I thouroughly enjoy some of his works (Evryali, etc.) some of them I just find irritating, and even downright painful to listen to (Herma, etc.). His mathematical concepts are interesting, but I don't find that they usually produce listenable music.

3. Chopin

Yes, Chopin. Don't get me wrong, I think his music is beautiful, but most of it is too simple and repetitive to my ears. For me, most of it is good background music, but I would rarely include his works, save for the Ballades/Scherzi/Sonatas and perhaps some of his various other smaller works, in a program. I've never liked the etudes.

4. Boulez

I don't like total serialism at all, especially the way Boulez handles it. I enjoy Scoenberg, Berg, and Webern, but Boulez is simply too much for me.

5. Bach

It is often expected that Sorabji-lovers will love Bach, but this is hardly the case with me. So much of his stuff is oddly monotonous to me, and his melodies are not my cup of tea. I can understand why his music would be good in developing technique, but there comes a point where I find I can't handle it anymore. I love certain works, like the Goldberg Variations, but I find the restrictive attitude that many teachers/judges/critics have that Bach MUST be interpreted a certain way (a disgustingly boring way, at that) a huge put-off.

6. Schumann

I don't really have much of an explanation here. I just can't stand his music. I don't really know why.

7. Copland

Most everything I've heard of his sounds the same, and I just don't enjoy his style enough to be OK with that. I also find that his works are often slow-paced and long-winded. I think his piano music is extremely dull and empty as well.

8. Bartok

I don't care for Bartok for the same reasons as bflatminor24.

That's pretty much it. Most of the composers above did write a few works I enjoy, but in general, they just don't interest me much.

[mephisto]

Me new list:

1.J Carey
2. Sorabji
3. Mozart
4. Beethoven
5. Alkan
6. Liszt
7. Ives
8. Rachmaninoff
9. Medtner
10.Bach

I think they`re music is so serious and often much longer than the songs I like to listen to. I see no melodie, and they have all this weird harmonies that sound bad. And sometimes they sound so lound and makes me feel sad or happy or something, but I only like music that is easy to dance to.

[pianochild]

Since when does one have to be able to compose BETTER music in order to dislike others? So if you dislike Liszt, you must be able to compose BETTER than Liszt did, otherwise your opinion is invalid?

What nonsense is that? What kind of inane logic are you employing, pianochild? Personal preference has nothing to do with superior ability. I never claimed to compose better than anyone, and I don't even compose at all.

And as for your obligatory "b-b-b-but what about rhapsody in blue and rites of spring?" question, my point still stands. I dislike those composers, and I have yet to hear something of theirs that grabs me. So far, nothing appealing. Not interested in jazzy cliche music nor am I interested in cacophic orchestral music.

~Max~

Ok you dont have to write such a posh answer as thet little thing, you obviously think your great, all im saying is those composers are not, not good, they are very famous and produces great works, not for the likes of you to diss them

[thalbergmad]

Me az revised my previous list which was all schumann.

1. Schumann
2. Xenakis
3. Berg
4. Webern
5. Cage
6. Stockhausen
7. Schoenberg
8. Satie
9. debussy
10. Ravel

[gymnopedist]

Ok you dont have to write such a posh answer as thet little thing, you obviously think your great, all im saying is those composers are not, not good, they are very famous and produces great works, not for the likes of you to diss them

Why shoudn't people be allowed to dislike composers just because they produced works of genius? i mean, i respect Bach, but i can't stand listening to his music. bflatminor24 may absolutely diss any composer he wishes to.

[invictious]

Sorabji, i don't get why people want to play the OC, it's just random notes, I can make a piece out of random notes and make it sound 20x better than his. He just plays random notes and tries to be famous.

Shostakovich, even though being russian, i hate him, his preludes are cow ppoop

Cage, experimental music? he is just trying to do random things and make it famous

copland, what the hell...? i fell asleep.

[prometheus]

Sorabji is just as random as J.S.Bach. Most of his pieces have fuges. Fuges are highly ordered.

You are totally ignorant about his music.

Sorabji has nothing to do with Copland and Cage. Sorabji fits with other conservative romantics like Rachmaninoff and Reger.

[JCarey]

Sorabji, i don't get why people want to play the OC, it's just random notes, I can make a piece out of random notes and make it sound 20x better than his. He just plays random notes and tries to be famous.

Sorabji's music is some of the most structured and ordered I've ever encounted. If you think Sorabji's music is random, you've probably never heard a single work of his, and you probably don't know the definition of "fugue" either. Give it a try, and stay away from the OC, which has yet to be recorded well. I suggest listening to the following works in this order:

2 Pieces (In the Hothouse, Toccata)
Fantaisie Espagnole
Le Jardin Parfume
Sonata No. 1
Gulistan
Toccata No. 1

Then, you will have heard enough of his music to make a valid decision.

[bflatminor24]

Sorabji, i don't get why people want to play the OC, it's just random notes, I can make a piece out of random notes and make it sound 20x better than his. He just plays random notes and tries to be famous.

Shostakovich, even though being russian, i hate him, his preludes are cow ppoop

Cage, experimental music? he is just trying to do random things and make it famous

copland, what the hell...? i fell asleep.

LOL. Funniest post I've read on this thread. hahahahaha. Especially about shostakovich and copland.

As for me, I just don't like serialism, experimental music, electronic music, and atonal orchestral music. All for the same reason: it sounds BORING and UGLY. Composers like Xenakis, Boulez, Shoenberg, Stockhausen, Cage, Milhaud, and Stravinky and Webern, and even some of Ligeti and some of Messiaen all sound ugly. UGLY. Cacophonic. Screetchy. Bizarre. Obnoxious.

I don't like jazzy music and cliche music like Gershwin, Copland, Bartok, Khatchaturian and Bernstein because it's BORING and not serious and uninteresting and simplistic.

Before you call me a conservative and say "You only like Bach Brahms Mozart Beethoven Schubert" just remember, I LOVE listening to composers like:

Sorabji
Hinton
Finnissy
Feldman
Rzewski

~Max~

[phil13]

Me new list:

9. Medtner

Even though this is a subjective thread, I just might have to kill you for saying that. 
  

Phil

[skyhawk]

Least

1. bach
2. beethoven
3. chopin
4. rachmaninoff
5. handel




Favorite

1. Prokofiev
2. Rhespighi
3. Copland
4. Bartok
5. Griffes

[mephisto]

Even though this is a subjective thread, I just might have to kill you for saying that. 
  

Phil

I absoloutly love Medtner`s music, and all the other music in my post. It was a joke.

I think people on this forum are way to hard on composers. I love almost all classical music that doesn`t sound like Boulez.

[nicco]

Me new list:

1.J Carey
2. Sorabji
3. Mozart
4. Beethoven
5. Alkan
6. Liszt
7. Ives
8. Rachmaninoff
9. Medtner
10.Bach

I think they`re music is so serious and often much longer than the songs I like to listen to. I see no melodie, and they have all this weird harmonies that sound bad. And sometimes they sound so lound and makes me feel sad or happy or something, but I only like music that is easy to dance to.

Maybe you are at the wrong forum.

[mephisto]

I was joking.

[nicco]

I was joking.

Bad joke.

[ahinton]

Sorabji, i don't get why people want to play the OC,

But have you asked anyone who does play it? Clearly, the answer to that is no. So, what you really mean is not only that you "don't get" it but that you have no intention of trying to "get it". Let's all be clear about that.

it's just random notes,

This has already been duly answered, so I have nothing to add to this preposterous statement other than to state that it is indeed preposterous.

I can make a piece out of random notes and make it sound 20x better than his.

Well, I know nothing of your compositional skills and imagination, so I will desist from comment on what you can or can't do as a composer but, even allowing for the fact that anyone looking at your results would end up not being able to compare like with like (since Sorabji's work is not random but yours would be), why don't you run along and do as you suggest you can? This will keep you occupied for a long time. Then we can all have a look at the results and see - if nothing else - whether it is even possible to determine whether or not any one piece is precisely "20×" better than any other...

He just plays random notes

Oh, so you even heard him play, did you? Where and when might that have been?

and tries to be famous.

For the benefit of anyone interested, can you explain exactly how he tried to do anything of the kind?

Best,

Alistair

[steve_m]

[

[mephisto]

How could you think Gershwin, of all people, is ugly sounding, but you like Sorabji?

He probably doesn`t mean ugly is in the sense as if someone is singing out of tune or anything. He means ugly as in he doesn`t like their music, and for some reasons calls that ugly.