What might you suggest to firm up the too delicate touch of a 9 year old girl?

[stevehopwood]

This is all wonderful knockabout stuff.

A lot of it misses one central point, though.

Digital 'pianos' are rubbish. They do not play like pianos or sound like pianos. They are an electric apology for the real thing.

Granted, they have their place. In a small flat where the player does not want to be lynched by irritated tenanats of other flats, for example, when the owner can play using headphones. Or in place of the sort of rancid, festering heap of rubbish that so many pupils have to endure because their parents are unwilling\unable to afford a decent instrument.

To describe them as 'pianos' is a mis-description. A piano is a percussive instrument in which the sound is produced by a hammer striking a string (actually, 3 strings, mostly, but never mind the niceties). I have yet to meet an electric piano that allows me a fraction of the tonal control afforded by an accoustic instrument.

Before anybody asks: yes, I have played hundreds of the wretched things.

Steve 

[barnowl]

The more I play my digital p, the more I agree with you and all other detractors.

Oh well, I keep telling myself, it's a good training device.

[quasimodo]

(...) and my main four interests in life: sex, music, martial arts and cooking, do not include the subject of vaccination, so I cannot be bothered to write lengthy posts on the subject (...)

Hey Bernhard, you might consider writing lengthy posts about the first mentionned major interest  .

It might produce fun and really interesting threads in the "anything but piano" forum, instead of the average boring and pointless elaborations on the Iraq war or the existence of God  .

[bernhard]

Hey Bernhard, you might consider writing lengthy posts about the first mentionned major interest  .

It might produce fun and really interesting threads in the "anything but piano" forum, instead of the average boring and pointless elaborations on the Iraq war or the existence of God  .

I am more interested in the practice than in the theory.

(and it is only intellectuals who think that oral sex means to taltk about sex all night )

Anyway, Stevie has covered the topic already (and got banned several times for it )

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[quasimodo]

I am more interested in the practice than in the theory.

Do you acquire technique from exercises or from the repertoire  ?

[bernhard]

Do you acquire technique from exercises or from the repertoire  ?

Always from the repertory. Doing pressups is not really going to help one in this area.

Then again, just like there are Hanonists, there are Onanists.

[richy321]

I don't see why it should be a problem to teach the girl to produce a firm tone at f and ff levels. (And I agree that it isn't a question of weak or strong fingers, just the proper technique  for producing the tone required).  More than any other aspect of piano playing, the technique is very simple: You just need to increase the downward velocity until you get the volume desired. 

I suspect that it is more of a psychological issue.  Probably, the child is overly sensitized to the reaction of others to her practicing, so she is subconsciously refusing to play other than softly.  I get this from the fact that the parent have made it clear that it (at least Hanon) drives them crazy as well as my recollection of my own experience.  My guess is that it is not the parents who want the child to study piano in the first place, but child herself and the parents are unknowingly sabotaging her by making such an issue of being bothered by her practicing.  If it is really Hanon that bothers the parents (that I can understand) it would be a blessing to all concerned to switch to repertory only but the parents have to make it clear to the child that the volume is not bothering them and encourage her to play out as is appropriate.

I am in emphatic agreement with "counterpoint" that going with a digital piano is not the way to go.  Again from sad experience, I will tell you that even the best digital piano with "grand piano action" and weighted keys (both of which are merely marketing gimmicks in my opinion) will do serious damage to your sense of touch and will take years of hard work on a real piano to undo.  The very fact that the digital can produce beautifully even sounds regardless of how crudely you play, as long as you hit the right notes, destroys one's ability to control dynamics on a real piano in short order.

Rich Y   




   

[barnowl]

So here I am with practicing, practicing, practicing on my  digital piano.

Comes November, I'll be in a recital, playing on a grand. To an audience of about 300 people.

[debussy symbolism]

Congradulations Barnowl. What will you be playing?

[barnowl]

Weeping Willow, a Scott Joplin Rag and a piece by a Russian composer. The latter hasn't been determined as yet. I'm awaiting the delivery of a book of works by various Russian composers, from which my teacher and I will select a second recital piece.

But the point I was making in the previous post is that I'm practicing on a digital and will "recite" on a grand piano that will be totally strange to me.

So when you consider the snippet from richy321"s post...

I will tell you that even the best digital piano with "grand piano action" and weighted keys (both of which are merely marketing gimmicks in my opinion) will do serious damage to your sense of touch and will take years of hard work on a real piano to undo.  The very fact that the digital can produce beautifully even sounds regardless of how crudely you play, as long as you hit the right notes, destroys one's ability to control dynamics on a real piano in short order.


...you'll see why I am now worried. Great news, Rich Y.  Thanks!

[bernhard]

Weeping Willow, a Scott Joplin Rag and a piece by a Russian composer. The latter hasn't been determined as yet. I'm awaiting the delivery of a book of works by various Russian composers, from which my teacher and I will select a second recital piece.

But the point I was making in the previous post is that I'm practicing on a digital and will "recite" on a grand piano that will be totally strange to me.

So when you consider the snippet from richy321"s post...

I will tell you that even the best digital piano with "grand piano action" and weighted keys (both of which are merely marketing gimmicks in my opinion) will do serious damage to your sense of touch and will take years of hard work on a real piano to undo.  The very fact that the digital can produce beautifully even sounds regardless of how crudely you play, as long as you hit the right notes, destroys one's ability to control dynamics on a real piano in short order.


...you'll see why I am now worried. Great news, Rich Y.  Thanks!

Don´t worry.  You will have no problems at all.  There is far more variation between acoustic pianos. For one thing, if your digital piano is a top range Yamaha, chances are that the grand you will be playing will also be a Yamaha, in which case both the sound and touch will feel almost the same.

There is a much more discernible difference between a grand and an upright acoustic for several reasons (the mechanics is different: the grand has a double escapement mechanism that an upright lacks; in a grand the hammers return by gravity, in an upright by springs, etc. etc.).

Besides certina grands are terrible to play in. I used to dread going to recitals to accompany my recorder students and finding a Bechstein there (for some reason I have never seen a new Bechstein: they were always old ones, out of tune, with heavy action and sticky keys).

Some people can get quite snobbish about piano sounds - usually at an age where they have already lost the ability to discriminate the higher and low frequencies of the spectrum. 

The best (and only way) to deal with this sort of thing is to arrange a few rehearsal sessions withteh piano you will be playing so that you can figure out its idiossincracies. A lot of "golden age" pianists would only perform on their own pianos, and would carry them around on tours (Paderewsky, Michelangeli, Hoffmann). More recently Andras Schiff has been doing the same, and goig one step further: He takes two pianos with him on tour: a Bosendorfer and a Steinway because he believes that different repertory will sound better in one or the other.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[barnowl]

Thank you for the comforting words, Bernhard. I intend to get some practice time on the recital piano. If I can get in there in the mornings, two or three times, I think no one else will hear me, and I'll get used to the piano.

Thanks again.

[bernhard]

Thank you for the comforting words, Bernhard. I intend to get some practice time on the recital piano. If I can get in there in the mornings, two or three times, I think no one else will hear me, and I'll get used to the piano.

Thanks again.

You are welcome.

(though I expect some flamming soon... )

[ingagroznaya]

Do you acquire technique from exercises or from the repertoire  ?

Whoaaa...

[ingagroznaya]

Always from the repertory. Doing pressups is not really going to help one in this area.

Then again, just like there are Hanonists, there are Onanists.

Whaaa Ha h Ha ha ha ha ha ha.
How on earth did I miss this conversation?

[quasimodo]

Whaaa Ha h Ha ha ha ha ha ha.
How on earth did I miss this conversation?

Yeah, how  ?

[ingagroznaya]

Well, Quasimodo...
as a busy Yamahist,  I thought I've got and was very excited about some new repertory. I was preoccupied with Onanist, but then the truth came out. Today he pulls two books with such a sparkle in his eyes - it was ( I am not making this up ) Cherny and Hanon. Not something I was ready for. One can't be both. It's hopeless, I understand.

Sorry to rain on your "delicate touch" parade. No techniques for me and no repertory. All I get is sweat!

[pianistimo]

onan was in the bible, too. 

ok - i quit.  the only thing is that if you rely too much on repertoire you obviously aren't making it up as you go.  and, why on this forum do people equate playing the piano with women falling in love with them as it's supposed to be like some magic formula.  women like the music that comes out of the man himself. is he magnetic.  look good.  smell good.  (if he plays the piano that's a bonus).  are his fingernails clean  (this is optional - but nice), does he look like a man?, does he act like a man?, does he make you feel protected? - all this has nothing to do with music or piano.

so the man that plays his repertoire upwards downwards and backwards - should sometimes get off the bench and strut his stuff.  swing his underwear over his head maybe.  (not during recital of course).  i can't say that my most heated moments with myhusband were performing music.  i think it was when he actually wore the white netted underwear with the whistle attached.

[ingagroznaya]

the only thing is that if you rely too much on repertoire you obviously aren't making it up as you go. 

nope  . agree .