quartets vs triplets

[brightcindy]

I am currently preparing for ABRSM exam (Grade for 2007, and in Mozart's Sonata KV. 332, there are four bars where the right hand is playing quartets while the left hand does triplets. Any idea how I can practise it effectively?

[ingagroznaya]

Nope. None. I've heard it being played incorrectly so many times in the past few months, I am afraid I'm now playing it all wrong. Let me know if you hear anything wise 

[bernhard]

Nope. None. I've heard it being played incorrectly so many times in the past few months, I am afraid I'm now playing it all wrong. Let me know if you hear anything wise 

What can one say after such helpful insight? (oops, please, ignore the wink).

Anyway, have a look here:

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2135.msg17950.html#msg17950
(How to use words to deal with 3 against 4)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2185.msg18517.html#msg18517
(3 x 2 – dropping notes)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2655.msg22751.html#msg22751
(triplets against eighths – diagrams)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4156.msg38585.html#msg38585
(coordinating cross-rhythms)

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,15801.0.html
(7s against 8s)

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,14937.0.html
(2s against 3s)

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,7077.msg78204.html#msg78204
(cross rhythms on fantasie impromptu)


Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[ingagroznaya]

Oh, you can wink, Bernhard, when it's appropriate.
It's not how we learnt . Once I discovered the correlation between "celery" and triplets, I thought it was a such a simple and brilliant idea! " Wow, celery...celery, blackberry, blackberry" I kept repeating in amusement. At some point, I shared the idea with my older Russian teacher friend, in response she look down on me. D-o-w-n. ( Jesus, Russian snobs! )

We were expected to memorize and to be able to repeat a pattern immediately just by listening. No "celery", no "nice cap of tea"... Any pattern were ingrained in our heads almost immediately and for life because we were afraid to ask for the third time: " How should I play this again?" Fourth time was out of the question. I do not have the same success with all of my students. They don't afraid to ask.

Some of your links are outdated, but thank you for those which still works. Sincerely.
If one can simplify something, why not?

[bernhard]

One more link that may be useful:

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/board,1/topic,10974.10.html#msg115011
(detailed explanation of polirhythms on Chopin Op. 25 no. 1)
 
The example is not the Mozart sonata, and it is not 3 against 4, but it shows in detail how to calculate the polirhythms mathematically. Just apply the same process to the section that is giving you trouble in Mozart. The effort to figure it out (as opposed to being spoonfed) will pay handsome dividends.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[ingagroznaya]

Bernhard, you are a such a show off. Most of us are too old fashion to calculate it "mathematically". What program did you use and how much it cost? I thought you had some real life suggestions, which any mortal can apply in real life.

The "effort to figure it out"?

ps. Sorry to take my frustration on you, but sometimes I feel as if I'm sending a student home with no clarity on how some parts should be played and that does not make me feel good as a teacher. I firmly believe it's all about listening.
I guess next time I'll be in troubles, I'll contact you directly, because I can not listen for them.

[bernhard]

Bernhard, you are a such a show off. Most of us are too old fashion to calculate it "mathematically". What program did you use and how much it cost? I thought you had some real life suggestions, which any mortal can apply in real life.

The "effort to figure it out"?

 

[ingagroznaya]

ps.ps. Any mortal in any situation. It's very easy to idealize someone you've never met in real life. Bummer.