Unable to practise because of finger-pain.

[bamse]

Since my right forefinger started to hurt, my practise has come to an involontary stop.

It was early June, and I had just made my first performance to an audience, when the troubles began. I had been playing since January and the piece I performed was Rondo Alla Turca.
The day after the performance I started working on perfecting the piece and continued to persue work on other pieces. Next morning I find that I'm unable to play because my fingers are too tired. The tiredness develops into a pain in the knuckle that connects my right forefinger to the hand. The pain worsens over the following days and is especially bad when the finger is rotated.
I quit practise for a couple of weeks and the pain fades away. Then, when I start again, the pain starts to return and now I feel similar pain in the knuckle of the right middle finger. Since then I have noticed pain in borh hands, wrists and elbows.
When I wake up after having slept on my hands (still lying upon them when waking up) they can be almost useless for up to an hour due to numbness and weakness.
All areas of pain are more or less isolated cases except for the right forefinger knuckle where pain keeps returning.

This has cept me off playing for more or less the entire summer, which is very unfortunate since playing the piano is by far my top interest. I don't think I deserve this either since I have been always aware of relaxation and alternation and seldom play for more than 20 minutes straight and always below two hours a day.

I have not seen a doctor yet, because I'm quite sure they won't/can't help me the slightest. My mother btw thinks the pain is (except for the first one) psychosomatic.
I really wan't to continue my practise and development but this scary finger-thing doesn't allow me to. Now I fear I won't be able to pursue learning this wonderful instrument. 

Any reflections, suggestions or advice would be very welcome.

Respectfully
/Bjorn

[pianistimo]

did u damage the finger previously?  as a child? 

my mom went to a chinese lady that used massage therapy for a lot of differnt stuff.  through various things of my own, i realize some of the pressure points really matter.  that's an off the top of my head suggestion. 

my own take, also, on joints and all is that joints need oil (just like machines) and taking more olive oil in ur diet can't hurt.  try that olive oil dip for bread (it's really good), olive oil on ur salad,  olive oil to fry things,  basically wherever u can use it sparingly. 

potassium and calcium always helped me, too.  a milkshake once in a while of ur own making.  milk, bananas, and some vit. c with blueberries or strawberries.  tastes good and can't hurt u unless ur allergic to one or the other ingredient.  sometimes just drinking enough WATER is important too.  our whole body needs fluids.

[jazzyprof]

When I wake up after having slept on my hands (still lying upon them when waking up) they can be almost useless for up to an hour due to numbness and weakness.
..........

I have not seen a doctor yet, because I'm quite sure they won't/can't help me the slightest.

Since sleeping on your hands seems to worsen your condition why not try a different sleeping posture?
Also do not dismiss so readily the ability of doctors to diagnose and treat your condition.  I had severe elbow pain from too much/incorrect piano playing some time ago.  I saw a doctor and he prescribed physical therapy which helped a great deal (of course, along with rest and a change in my approach to the piano).
So, don't sleep on your hands, stop playing the piano for a while, and see a doctor!

[barnowl]

It may be useless to suggest it, but I will, anyway.

See a doctor ASAP — perhaps an Internist, for openers. Don't diagnose yourself, or maintain an opinion that an MD can't help you. You don't know enough.

Nip this thing in the bud, jazzyprof.

(And whether you like it or not, I'll say a prayer or two for you.)

[bamse]

I have listened to your advice, and saw my doctor today. She was able to say with high certainty that it was a joint-inflammation caused by over-use of small muscle groups. The problem is probably linked to excessive computer use in combination with the piano practice.
So, now I take Naprosyn for the inflammation, hold the computer mouse in the left hand and practise very careful with the intention of increase practice over time.


jazzyprof:
How do you adjust you sleeping position? For me, its automatic.




Thank you very much for posting.

[barnowl]

I'm glad to learn you've got the condition under control, Bamse, and I hope
it eventually goes away for good.

I hope this ends Dr. Mom's medical career. 

Replaying the tapes, I see that earlier,  I mistakenly referred to another poster by name instead of you. Sorry about that.

But you did go to the doctor and that's what really counts.

[pianistimo]

here's a home remedy for changing sleeping positions.  let the mask and hose hang off the edge of the bed.

[barnowl]

here's a home remedy for changing sleeping positions.  let the mask and hose hang off the edge of the bed.

I don't get it, Pianistimo. Please explain. I suspect it's a bit risqué, however. 

[jlh]

I don't know that olive oil will help specifically in the joints.  What you need is an Omega-3 fatty acid (fish oil or flax seed oil) supplement -- something with Glucosamine & Chondroitin and MSM would be ideal.  These are known to promote joint health.  I'm not an MD, but I've had joint issues before and this has helped me. 

Also, for the long term, consider the possibility that you ARE overworking the small muscles of your hands and see about what you can do technique-wise to overcome this.  That's the only way to really cure this.  The mozart rondo is not especially taxing on the pianist, so if this piece is causing you trouble, my bet is that there's an easier way to play it than what you're used to.

[desordre]

 Dear Bamse:
 Very good to know that you already saw a doctor. Anyway, I'm a bit concerned, and let me tell you why. If you aren't over fifty, joint-inflammation must have a precise cause. Your doc told you: mouse & piano. It's a powerful combination, but the main problem is not the mouse. In other words, your piano practice, although you say is not too long or too intense, is wrong. Possible causes:
 - wrong arm/hand/whatever position;
 - muscular tension when playing your repertory (or, even worst, your technique exercises);
 - repertory that requires too much on you (speed, stamina, power, mechanics);
 I reinforce the tension issue, cause it's normally the main problem, and it's general: do you use to break your pencil's point when writing? Do you brush your teeth with too much power? The list is endless.
 Think about that and until you're feeling a hundred percent, be very very careful with your piano playing. My suggestion might be: quit for a while. Your muscles are most valuable than any money or any immediate pleasing.
 Take care, and best wishes! Hope that you recover as soon as possible!
 

[bamse]

Thanks for your replies guys.

My problems did not improve, I cut down heavily on playing over the summer, but things just got worse. In August I could scarcely use my hands for my daily routines. I got to a physical therapist who said I had bilateral tennis elbow.

I'm still not recovered and have not played the piano since July last year. Furthermore, during the last month I have developed symptomps quite obviously indicating Carpal Tunnel Syndrome.

I don't know why my arms are so vulnerable, but I'm not giving up piano. I've gotten myself  wrist-splints for wearing during night against the CTS. Could it be a good idea to try playing with them on?

[danny elfboy]

I agree with disordre
There's something in your playing and typing that is causing the inflamation
Given the nature of fatigue (lack of fuel) and the nature of tension (unreleased co-contraction) it can be easy said that proper typing and proper playing not only can be sustained for an undefinite amount of time without tension but that they also should even make your hands/arms/fingers feel better not worse.

You should be able to play the most demanding virtuoso pieces with the all the power you needs for hours without feelings fatigues, tensed of feeling pain and actually you should feel better and more "renewed" than you began.
Both fatigue (stamina) and speed are neurological.
They come from the Central Nervous System not your muscles

Can you provide some cam pics or vids of you playing?
It would be easier from that to tell you what's contributing to the pain in your playing and how to solve it. That applies to your typing too. I see people that type in terrible ways, with the elbows 40 centimenters of more below the desk oblique to the axis of the desk with uneeded strength and low wrist or contracted knucles

[jlh]

Did you go to a hand specialist?  When I had wrist problems in highschool I went to one and they hooked up some wires and ran small impulses (I couldn't really feel them they were so weak) through my arms and hands and they were able to tell me I didn't have CTS from that.  Turned out it was a bad case of tendinitus and I spent the next few years correcting some tension issues.

If you take my previous advice about the specific joint health supplements, make sure it has MSM, because it has been proven that Chondroitin doesn't work unless it's taken with MSM.  The problem is that most people's diets don't include necessary nutrients needed for joint health.  Taking a few asperin or advil can't hurt either.

Most important is that you figure out EXACTLY what is causing it.  Generally you say it is piano and typing/using the mouse combined, but those activities in themselves I don't think will cause such a major issue, but it is HOW you are doing those activities.  I agree with danny elfboy -- if you can post a vid of you playing it might give clues to what you're doing that is causing the pain.

[ihatepop]

Since my right forefinger started to hurt, my practise has come to an involontary stop.

It was early June, and I had just made my first performance to an audience, when the troubles began. I had been playing since January and the piece I performed was Rondo Alla Turca.
The day after the performance I started working on perfecting the piece and continued to persue work on other pieces. Next morning I find that I'm unable to play because my fingers are too tired. The tiredness develops into a pain in the knuckle that connects my right forefinger to the hand. The pain worsens over the following days and is especially bad when the finger is rotated.
I quit practise for a couple of weeks and the pain fades away. Then, when I start again, the pain starts to return and now I feel similar pain in the knuckle of the right middle finger. Since then I have noticed pain in borh hands, wrists and elbows.
When I wake up after having slept on my hands (still lying upon them when waking up) they can be almost useless for up to an hour due to numbness and weakness.
All areas of pain are more or less isolated cases except for the right forefinger knuckle where pain keeps returning.

This has cept me off playing for more or less the entire summer, which is very unfortunate since playing the piano is by far my top interest. I don't think I deserve this either since I have been always aware of relaxation and alternation and seldom play for more than 20 minutes straight and always below two hours a day.

I have not seen a doctor yet, because I'm quite sure they won't/can't help me the slightest. My mother btw thinks the pain is (except for the first one) psychosomatic.
I really wan't to continue my practise and development but this scary finger-thing doesn't allow me to. Now I fear I won't be able to pursue learning this wonderful instrument. 

Any reflections, suggestions or advice would be very welcome.

Respectfully
/Bjorn

Ouch, thats really sad. :'(I can't imagine how I would survive not practicing the piano for such a long period of time...

Go see a doctor.

ihatepop