Which professional pianist has the worsest technique?

[franz_]

Vote, and say why.

[counterpoint]

You can't get in the club if you have a bad technique.
So there is no professional pianist, who has a bad technique.
(But there are many, who really don't understand, what they are playing.)

[living_stradivarius]

Glenn Gould. Worst as in bad for the body.

[chopinfan_22]

Lang Lang. Not only does he make pieces sound like crap, but his overexaggerated movements are unnecessary, as well as pointless.

[franz_]

Lang Lang. Not only does he make pieces sound like crap, but his overexaggerated movements are unnecessary, as well as pointless.

So untrue. I agree with you that he is a bad pianist. But if he has sumthing, it is technique.

[chopinfan_22]

So untrue. I agree with you that he is a bad pianist. But if he has sumthing, it is technique.

I didn't say he didn't have technique. I just said that he moves and over exaggerates his movements when he doesn't need to.

[mikey6]

Lang Lang. Not only does he make pieces sound like crap, but his overexaggerated movements are unnecessary, as well as pointless.

I saw his carnegie recital (on TV) and I dind't think he was bad.  His Haydn may have lacked some humour but it was light and energetic.  His facial expressions annoy me though.

Surprised no one's mentioned Arrau, his technique (what is technique?!) certainly isn't on the level of say Cziffra.

[chopinfan_22]

I saw his carnegie recital (on TV) and I dind't think he was bad.  His Haydn may have lacked some humour but it was light and energetic.  His facial expressions annoy me though.

Surprised no one's mentioned Arrau, his technique (what is technique?!) certainly isn't on the level of say Cziffra.

Technique, as I understand it, is the ability to play the piano/pieces of certain difficulty with as much ease as possible. How you do that is entirely up to you.

[mikey6]

Technique, as I understand it, is the ability to play the piano/pieces of certain difficulty with as much ease as possible. How you do that is entirely up to you.

But it's also the ability to produce a sound - and the correct sound to induce a certain feeling, therefore tying in with musicianship - Which is where it get's hard to distinguish between the 2.

[brewtality]

Surprised no one's mentioned Arrau, his technique (what is technique?!) certainly isn't on the level of say Cziffra.

Remember that Arrau recorded most all of his commonly available stuff at an advanced age while Cziffra is practically entirely during his peak. Arrau during his youth was quite a virtuoso with a big technique and a gigantic repetoire.

A pianist who I think struggles technically is Geoffrey Tozer, I remember hearing him on the radio, he struggled to get through things like the Moonlight Sonata. It was littered with wrong notes and musically extremely disorganised.

[phil13]

A pianist who I think struggles technically is Geoffrey Tozer, I remember hearing him on the radio, he struggled to get through things like the Moonlight Sonata. It was littered with wrong notes and musically extremely disorganised.

That's bizarre, because his Medtner rocks, and Medtner ain't exactly easy to play.

Phil

[brewtality]

That's bizarre, because his Medtner rocks, and Medtner ain't exactly easy to play.

Phil

Maybe he was just having an off day, but I have it on good authority that he is very inconsistent live (he used to live in my town and my teacher heard him alot).

[phil13]

Maybe he was just having an off day, but I have it on good authority that he is very inconsistent live (he used to live in my town and my teacher heard him alot).

Or maybe he's just better in a recording studio. 

Phil

[living_stradivarius]

I didn't say he didn't have technique. I just said that he moves and over exaggerates his movements when he doesn't need to.

That's because he's 100% Asian.

If you haven't seen this by now.

[mike_lang]

How about Schnabel?

[firebolt145]

Gould is an expert on Bach.

Lang Lang DOES have excellent technique. But he sickens me with his movements. Half the time he makes me wonder if he's about to fall of the chair with all those annoying jerks.

He over exaggerates expression as well, often disobeying the composer's marking. I heard a recording of Tchaikovsky's 1st Piano Concerto by Lang Lang and I lost count of the amount of times he made fatal changes to the expression. It was no longer a russian piece.

It was littered with wrong notes

I wouldn't rate pianists by wrong notes. Remember Horowitz? He made an immense number of wrong notes, especially live, but everyone still considers his technique and colours legendary.

[brewtality]

I wouldn't rate pianists by wrong notes. Remember Horowitz? He made an immense number of wrong notes, especially live, but everyone still considers his technique and colours legendary.

Believe me I don't. However, Tozer is no Horowitz and his wrong notes indicated that his technique was terribly shaky whilst Horowitz was just careless. This is the moonlight sonata, a piece that even average amateurs can get through relatively unscathed. Tozer hit wrong notes in almost every bar of the third movement, this is beyond my level of tolerance. 

[firebolt145]

If you're talking about the first two movements, then yes, average amateurs can get through relatively unscathed. The first two movements are probably ABRSM grade 6ish. The third movement is a huge leap forward.

Though yes, wrong notes in almost every bar is pretty pathetic.

[ihatepop]

Glenn Gould. Worst as in bad for the body.

How in the world is he bad for the body?
Please explain.

[musicsdarkangel]

i'd say Arrau, but his musicality and imagination more then makes up for it.




runners up for worst technique:  Hamelin, Cziffra, Volodos, Horowitz, Argerich, Ashkenazy, Berman, God, AI, etc etc

[musicsdarkangel]

How in the world is he bad for the body?
Please explain.

aweful posture

sits incredibly low as well, looks all scrunched up

[franz_]

aweful posture

sits incredibly low as well, looks all scrunched up

I know, but it intrigates me. I like it. His sound is good, and I like his 'strangeness'. Sitting on an old chair, leggs crossed, sitting very low, singing,...
A phenomen in his style.

[musicsdarkangel]

agreed

[firebolt145]

He also takes away the cover of the keys, so he can see the hammers apparently.

Horowitz had his own technique - his hands were always below the keys, his fingers were always flat for loud passages, and his body almost never moved.

Yet he still had legendary sound. IMHO, just because you have different technique doesn't mean it's horrible.

[cloches_de_geneve]

One problem is that the word "piano technique" is poorly defined. A good technique includes A) playing all or, say, 99% of the notes correctly, with correct dynamics, and tremendous speed if necessary. But a technique becomes really impressive if B) difficult passages are being mastered in an ingenious, original way, with effects that one usually believes to be impossible to produce either at that speed or in a general way; and in a way that totally matches the spirit of the music. For some reason excelling in one rarely goes together with excelling in the other.

In the older generation there were very few from the A-type but lots from the B-type; today it is the opposite. When I say this, I exclusively refer to piano technique, NOT to musicality.

Rubinstein, Horowitz, Edwin and Annie Fischer, Kempff, Haskil, Cortot had wrong notes all over the place (see Leonskaya, Perahia, Uchida, Brendel for more recent examples ...) but they got out incredible technical effects from the piano on the level of sounds, colors, dynamics (e.g a magically delicate prestissimo run of sixths starting in p and finishing ppp). I mean, these guys were real artists of piano technique and not merely reliable super-technicians. This is one of the reasons why many listeners still prefer Cortot's Chopin Etudes to those by Pollini, Lugansky, Beresowsky, even though there is rarely a sequence of more than 10 sec in Cortot's recording without some very audible wrong note.

There are a few legendary exceptions that had both skills e.g. Richter, Michelangeli, Pletnev (sorry have to include Pletnev in past tense, imo as a pianist he was better 10-20 years ago).

Today, we have A-Types all over the place. What for?

[franz_]

Today, we have A-Types all over the play. What for?

Strange that many many people has this opinion. Me to. But still we (the young pianists today) prefer technique and show-off things rather than musicality. Why is everybody thinking the same way but notting changes?

[krenske]

Dear franz_
I dunno who has the worsest piano technique, but you have the worsest spelling.
Get a dictionary mate.
cheers, pete

[invictious]

Lang Lang. Not only does he make pieces sound like crap, but his overexaggerated movements are unnecessary, as well as pointless.

Hell no, you must be on crack to say that, Lang Lang has the best technique ever, although his interpretations and musicality are a bit schizophrenic.
His facial expressions are disturbing, something like this, check out the link, but it's piano face:

https://www.angelfire.com/tx/singlecoil/face.html

[franz_]

Dear franz_
I dunno who has the worsest piano technique, but you have the worsest spelling.
Get a dictionary mate.
cheers, pete

Sorry mate. I'm not an English or Australian or whatever. I'm a Belgian. And in my opinion language is a way to EXPRESS you. And you understood me, so in my opinion their is no problem.

[Graf Zahl]

Dear franz_
I dunno who has the worsest piano technique, but you have the worsest spelling.
Get a dictionary mate.
cheers, pete

save it

 

[firebolt145]

Strange that many many people has this opinion. Me to. But still we (the young pianists today) prefer technique and show-off things rather than musicality. Why is everybody thinking the same way but notting changes?

The main reason? The majority of the public (who are not musical) only feel amazed at one's ability to move his fingers quickly, instead of the quality of the music.

I exploit that too.

Once we 'young pianists' get more 'mature', so to speak, we start paying much more attention to musicality.

[airasia]

I didn't say he didn't have technique. I just said that he moves and over exaggerates his movements when he doesn't need to.

The topic is, "Who has the worst technique?" Not "Who has the worst body movements and facial expressions?"  Why is Lang Lang being mentioned just because people don't like looking at him?  The people mentioning him in a "worst technique" thread can't even deny he has technique, but that they just don't like looking at him.  They just HAVE to bring him up when there's a "worst" thread.  Some people are so prejudiced and superficial it's not even funny.

[ihatepop]

I know, but it intrigates me. I like it. His sound is good, and I like his 'strangeness'. Sitting on an old chair, leggs crossed, sitting very low, singing,...
A phenomen in his style.

agreed. He isn't too bad.

[Kassaa]

The topic is, "Who has the worst technique?" Not "Who has the worst body movements and facial expressions?"  Why is Lang Lang being mentioned just because people don't like looking at him?  The people mentioning him in a "worst technique" thread can't even deny he has technique, but that they just don't like looking at him.  They just HAVE to bring him up when there's a "worst" thread.  Some people are so prejudiced and superficial it's not even funny.

Body movements and being healthy are a part of technique. Glenn Gould *** his back with playing like that, so is technique wasn't good.

[franz_]

Body movements and being healthy are a part of technique. Glenn Gould fucked up his back with playing like that, so is technique wasn't good.

So wrong.

[airasia]

Body movements and being healthy are a part of technique. Glenn Gould *** his back with playing like that, so is technique wasn't good.

Yeah, and Lang Lang is so unhealthy and at risk of inury cause of his body movements...

[superstition2]

Horowitz' studio recordings are often benchmarks for pieces. When he was young, he didn't miss much. Rubinstein told a story about how he and Horowitz played the same night and Horowitz was upset that he missed a single note during his concert. Rubinstein said Horowitz was the technician and he was the musician.

Frankly, if a live performance has wrong notes, I don't see how that's a bad thing as long as the performance is top-notch. When a pianist takes risks, the rewards can outweigh the disadvantage of a few wrong notes. Horowitz' live performance of the 5th Scriabin sonata is unmatched, even though he wasn't young at the time. Horowitz' studio recordings of Scriabin are unmatched for precision as well as interpretive quality (with the exception of the somewhat bland, but still great, 3rd sonata performance). Sofronitsky and Richter are the only pianists who challenge him, and neither of them can be said to have been better. Each of the three has particular recordings that stand at the top. Richter's 6th sonata (live) is unmatched, and Sofronitsky's 9th sonata is as well.

[steve jones]

That's because he's 100% Asian.

If you haven't seen this by now.

I must admit, that video did endear me to LL quite a bit. He may be a total penis, but atleast he is a person! Some of the others, Im sure they are mechanical piano playing robots. Whereas I can quite easily imagine sitting with LL and have a couple of rounds on Streetfighter 

And incidentally, his technique is amazing!

SJ

[Kassaa]

So wrong.

Because? If you get hurt while playing you're obviously doing something wrong.

[bradley]

Surprised no one's mentioned Arrau, his technique (what is technique?!) certainly isn't on the level of say Cziffra.

I totally disagree. Have you heard Arrau's Liszt Etudes? I think Arrau is a terribly underrated pianist, although I will agree that his playing can sometimes be TOO weighty and a little bit predictable...

[firebolt145]

I read a book recently titled something like "The Top 10 Pianists of the 20th Century".

I can't remember all of them, but Horowitz, Glenn Gould and Arrau were among them.

[da jake]

Gould's rhythm, control, and articulation is among the very best of all pianists. When Gould plays fast, everything is even and crystal clear:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOaeJhcCtbE&search=glenn%20gould

The closest competition to Gould in terms of these seldom conquered facets of technique comes from imho, Rachmaninov (listen to his PHENOMENAL early recording of Gnomenreigen to understand what I mean).

[opus10no2]

 

[elevateme_returns]

I saw his carnegie recital (on TV) and I dind't think he was bad.  His Haydn may have lacked some humour but it was light and energetic.  His facial expressions annoy me though.

Surprised no one's mentioned Arrau, his technique (what is technique?!) certainly isn't on the level of say Cziffra.

what??? in his day arrau's technique was totally sublime. couldnt he could play all liszt transcendental studies note perfectly by the age of 12!?!?!

however in his later years his technique was not quite as impressive. his scarbo is not that great

[sevencircles]

Rachmaninov (listen to his PHENOMENAL early recording of Gnomenreigen to understand what I mean).

Where can I find that?

[danny elfboy]

You can't get in the club if you have a bad technique.
So there is no professional pianist, who has a bad technique.
(But there are many, who really don't understand, what they are playing.)

Not true.
One can be able to do something anyway even if he/she is adopting the worst technique possible. Sport comes to mind. There are many athletes that indeed can make good performance and win but many do at their expense of what is healthy, economical and efficient. Depending on their resistance they may already suffer a lot or sooner or later will suffer from severe kind of injuries.

Bad technique is not about being or not being able to play something but the most economical and efficient coordination possible. One can play with strain, effort, pain, fatigue and awkward motions (because yes it's enterely impossible) but this doesn't mean he/she is using a good technique.

I know a pianist that must keep from crying while performing because of the pain she feels.

[danny elfboy]

The topic is, "Who has the worst technique?" Not "Who has the worst body movements and facial expressions?"  Why is Lang Lang being mentioned just because people don't like looking at him?  The people mentioning him in a "worst technique" thread can't even deny he has technique, but that they just don't like looking at him.  They just HAVE to bring him up when there's a "worst" thread.  Some people are so prejudiced and superficial it's not even funny.

I have claimed this before.
Lang Lang expressions and body movements can be considered "flaws in technique" in a way. The reason is that they're all motions that promote tension and overuse muscles that are not supposed to get on the way. Because of all those movements he oftens raise his shoulder, lock his neck, tense in spine.

I can't predict he will soon suffer from problems (and as I have said there are more injuried pianists than healthy well functioning pianists) because after all there people who made it to 100 who smoked cigars and cigaretted daily, drink tons of alcohol and ate mostly fried meat. Anyway there are enough compelling evidences to discourage such practices and to consider those people "exceptions to the rule".

Most of the injuried pianists I have known developed their injury from "overexpression" of the same kind (yet of a smaller degree) than the one portraied by Lang Lang.
Their re-training consisted mostly on more efficient and economical way to play the piano expressively without damaging their nerves, tendons, ligaments and muscles.

[ryanyee]

I have claimed this before.
Lang Lang expressions and body movements can be considered "flaws in technique" in a way. The reason is that they're all motions that promote tension and overuse muscles that are not supposed to get on the way. Because of all those movements he oftens raise his shoulder, lock his neck, tense in spine.

I can't predict he will soon suffer from problems (and as I have said there are more injuried pianists than healthy well functioning pianists) because after all there people who made it to 100 who smoked cigars and cigaretted daily, drink tons of alcohol and ate mostly fried meat. Anyway there are enough compelling evidences to discourage such practices and to consider those people "exceptions to the rule".

Most of the injuried pianists I have known developed their injury from "overexpression" of the same kind (yet of a smaller degree) than the one portraied by Lang Lang.
Their re-training consisted mostly on more efficient and economical way to play the piano expressively without damaging their nerves, tendons, ligaments and muscles.

to cut a long critisization short, all asian pianists are bad. ain't that right?

[ultraviolet]

Vote, and say why.

Martha Argerich.  It doesn't ever seem like she can get anything up to tempo.

Sviatoslav Richter.  His fingers are bigger than sausages and he's always hitting multiple notes because he can't fit between the keys.

Emmanuel Ax.  His hand position is totally improper.

[mike_lang]

Martha Argerich.  It doesn't ever seem like she can get anything up to tempo.

Sviatoslav Richter.  His fingers are bigger than sausages and he's always hitting multiple notes because he can't fit between the keys.

Emmanuel Ax.  His hand position is totally improper.

You forgot Pletnev - he doesn't dance around like a clown enough when he plays.