The perfect cast

[bernhard]

I enjoy very much movies about composers / pianists. However, sometimes I find it very disconcerting the choice of actors for some of the parts.

For instance, the Chopinīs biopic "Impromptu" hada a perfectly cast Julian Sands as Liszt and a perfectly cast Judy Davies as George Sand. But then they wrecked the movie by miscasting Hugh Grant of all people as Chopin.

What next? John Travolta as Brahms? Tom Cruise as Beethoven? Arnold Schwazzeneger as Bach? (" I will be Bach!" ).

Actually I thought Gary Oldman did a very good job as Beethoven in "Immortal beloved".

So the question is:

Which composer/ pianist would you like to see a biopic of, and which actor would you consider to be the perfect cast for the project?

(Feel free to rant about bad castings, such as Dirk Bogarde and Richter as Liszt or Tom Hulce as Mozart).

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[ted]

I don't watch pictures very often so I cannot conjecture about hypothetical examples. However, one superb casting was for "Song of Summer", the Ken Russell film about Delius. Eric Fenby, who himself acted as an advisor for the film, stated afterwards that Max Adrian's portrayal of Delius was so realistic it affected him (Fenby) very greatly. The supporting cast, playing Jelka, Percy Grainger and Fenby were also quite brilliant.

[Derek]

I thought Hugh Grant was a superb Chopin! Impromptu's a wonderful movie!  And don't tell me you didn't like Amadeus...that's another great movie.  I'm sure your problem with both of those actors is they didn't portray the GRAVITAS  that our idolized memory of these composers would seem to require---but it seems to me just as likely they seemed like normal people as anybody else.

[jas]

For instance, the Chopinīs biopic "Impromptu" hada a perfectly cast Julian Sands as Liszt and a perfectly cast Judy Davies as George Sand. But then they wrecked the movie by miscasting Hugh Grant of all people as Chopin.

I agree that Julian Sands and Judy Davis are brilliant in Impromptu. I thought Hugh Grant did quite a good job but that they were pretty far off the mark as far as Chopin's characterisation went, which isn't his fault. Or rather, they went for the stereotypical sickly Chopin. You're right, his performance lacks the naturalness of the others', but overall I think the casting was pretty good.

Arnold Schwazzeneger as Bach? (" I will be Bach!" ).

*Obligatory groan*

Tom Hulce as Mozart).

I love Tom Hulce as Mozart! I mean, I'm not going to use the film as a study aid or anything, but he's completely likeable and he captures the childishness in Mozart's personality brilliantly.

I still haven't seen Immortal Beloved, though it's been on my "to watch" list for years. Has anyone seen Lisztomania? Is it as awful as it sounds?

Anyway, to answer the question, I'd quite like to see a film about Bach, starring Ray Winston! (I love Ray Winston. If he can play Henry VIII he can play Bach. )

Jas

[thalbergmad]

Was it a boyhood dream of mine or did Natasha Kinski play Clara Schumann??

Dirk Bogard as Liszt was pretty awful.

I cannot think of of anything worse than Stewart Grainger as Paganini.

Thal

[bernhard]

I don't watch pictures very often so I cannot conjecture about hypothetical examples. However, one superb casting was for "Song of Summer", the Ken Russell film about Delius. Eric Fenby, who himself acted as an advisor for the film, stated afterwards that Max Adrian's portrayal of Delius was so realistic it affected him (Fenby) very greatly. The supporting cast, playing Jelka, Percy Grainger and Fenby were also quite brilliant.

This is indeed a wonderful movie, argaubly Ken Russelīs best movie (of his series of muscians biopics). You are right, the whole cast is excellent. Scenes from that movie keep flashing in my mind (Percy Grainger throwing a ball one side of the house and running through the house to catch it the other side).

On the subject of Percy Grainger, there is a biopic of him "Passion" - also excellent - with absolutely perfectly cast Richard Roxburgh as Percy Grainger and Barbara Hershey as his mother, Rose. See details here:

https://www.preview-online.com/may_june/feature_articles/passion/passion_pg1.html

Another Ken Russel: "The music lovers" where again, we have a perfect cast with Richard Chamberlain as Tchaikovsky and Glenda Jackson as his wife.

Ken also did a biopic of Mahler but I didnīt think it was as good as the above two (perhaps because I donīt care that much for Mahler). Yet Robert Powell was a good choice for Mahler.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[bernhard]

I thought Hugh Grant was a superb Chopin! Impromptu's a wonderful movie!  And don't tell me you didn't like Amadeus...that's another great movie.  I'm sure your problem with both of those actors is they didn't portray the GRAVITAS  that our idolized memory of these composers would seem to require---but it seems to me just as likely they seemed like normal people as anybody else.

The problem with Hugh Grant is that he is arguably the most one-dimensional actor in British history. No matter what role he plays, he is always the same. In certain movies, his bumbling, hesitating shy persona can be sort of endearing (e.g. 4 weedings and  a funeral), but after three or four movies of the same, it becomes intensely irritating, even more so when the movie does not fit his iron cast interpretation - as in Chopin.

As for Amadeus, I truly enjoyed the movie, and there is some very good casting in it (e.g. Salieri  and the Emperor of Austria - which steals every scene he is in), but both Tom Hulce and the lady who played Constanza (with a heavy and inapproproate American accent) sank the movie (for me).

I did enjoy Tom Hulce in Animalīs House though.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[bernhard]

I still haven't seen Immortal Beloved, though it's been on my "to watch" list for years. Has anyone seen Lisztomania? Is it as awful as it sounds?

Roger Daltrey (of The Who fame) as Liszt is an even worse piece of casting than Hugh Grant as Chopin. Nah, give Lisztomania a pass unless you are one of these people who watch dreadful movies, because they are so bad they become good. 

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[bernhard]

Was it a boyhood dream of mine or did Natasha Kinski play Clara Schumann??

Indeed she did . Unfortunately I have not seen it. Must look if it is available in DVD.

Dirk Bogard as Liszt was pretty awful.

I cannot think of of anything worse than Stewart Grainger as Paganini.

I submit that they (and Hugh Grant) were both beaten by Cornel Wilde as Chopin in "A Song to Remember" (1945).

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[thalbergmad]

Indeed she did . Unfortunately I have not seen it. Must look if it is available in DVD.

I submit that they (and Hugh Grant) were both beaten by Cornel Wilde as Chopin in "A Song to Remember" (1945).

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

I still have the Chopin on Video.

That would also win the "historically incorrect" award.

Bloody awful film.

Thal

[pianistimo]

the movie 'the pianist' reminded me of that fellow that was washed up and couldn't remember his name.  the movie was kinda confusing.  are you watching him have a recollection or is it part of real life.  after a while...i just fell asleep.  too predictably unpredictable.

i want to see thalbergmad play thalberg.  i want to know the full story.  just looking at a statue in italy doesn't do much.  of course, the academy is renamed and i believe is still functional and there are competitions.  unfortunately, noone remembers them or what they did for some reason.  i think a movie would get things off the ground again.

say, turning the subject to the peleton (somebody had an accident and i missed it, thankfully) - will lance armstrong play lance armstrong in a movie someday.  i think i'd see that one too! 

[bernhard]

say, turning the subject to the peleton (somebody had an accident and i missed it, thankfully) - will lance armstrong play lance armstrong in a movie someday.  i think i'd see that one too! 

He has already. He makes a cameo appearance as himself in "Dodgeball" (with Ben Stiller and Vince Vauhgn). He appears towards the end and gives some uplifting advice to Vince Vaughn who is about to give up ("If I could overcoem cancer and still be a champion, so can you" or somtehing on those lines).

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[timothy42b]

Blues Brothers, and the sequel Blues Brothers 2000.  (one of the rare cases where the sequel is as good or better than the classic) 

Or, how about Antonio Banderas as the guitar player in that Mexican thing, Banditos or something like that.  It had a sequel too, but it was truly awful, I couldn't finish it. 

[arbisley]

the movie 'the pianist' reminded me of that fellow that was washed up and couldn't remember his name.  the movie was kinda confusing.  are you watching him have a recollection or is it part of real life.  after a while...i just fell asleep.  too predictably unpredictable.

What I found the most disconcerting part of it was the "pianist" bit. There really was not much character to relate to the fact that he was a pianist, only the one scene where he saves his life by playing, but when that came on the DVD blocked and we couldn't get back to it!

I think "Shine" was a much better representation of one of the possibilities of what a pianist's life could be like, even though it might not happen to many of us!

[pianistimo]

hmm. shine?  i've not seen that one.  do they go psychotic at the end?  (*wonders if it might be true to life).  just kidding.  slightly.

bernhard, did you say lance starred in 'dodgeball.'  are you pulling my leg.  i want him to star in a cycling movie not a dodgeball movie.  how depressing.  this is the state of movies nowdays.  whatever you got with the good old movies - you have to just wish for in the new ones.  no plot or lines or much of a character.

now, lamond was on last night and talked about his accidental hunting accident where his best friend shot him full of pellets (almost all his internal organs were affected).  they showed a picture of him laying back on the bed - after a nurse had laughed when he asked for more morphine.  she didn't realize the morphine drip link had kinked and he was in a lot (LOT) of pain.  that's a nurse for you (especially the nurses that worked that hospital - since it was near a prison and they also mixed him up with prison inmates that routinely try to kill themselves and others).  that was a sad long amazing story that lamond had.  i had NO idea.  also, his wife was pregnant at the time it happened and when she heard the news went into labor.  so here she is at 7 months -trying to stave off labor - and her husband is in another hospital full of bullet holes.  however they got thru that, i don't know.  or, just to walk or recover.  that guy is amazing!

[pianistimo]

ps  bernhard, i'd like to see you play scarlatti sometime or better yet in a movie entitled 'the piano teacher.'  it would feature many doorbell scenes.  those are even more interesting than the lesson itself sometimes.  the personality of each student at the door.  esp. if they have to ring a few times and how they walk in the house.  some first time students are scared of the piano - others walk right up to it and don't hear the teacher for the first 5 minutes because they just start right in.  of course, then we'd also get glimpses of lessons and 'aha' moments.  the 'aha' moments would be the highlights of this movie.  actually, i think i'd make it like those black and white foreign films with no sound - but just the action of everyone.

we need some conductors, too.  who will play bruno walter?  i want to know more about him.  of course, ricardo muti could very well play himself.  conductors are very interesting to me (not just psychotically) but how they process information and how they come to quick conclusions and direction. 

we're coming to your basic pbs documentary which is also thrilling to me.  i want to see more of robert levine just being robert levine.  or, kallberg sp? who lives in pennsylvania and is a chopin specialist?  someone like that could really do a job on a movie cast since they might get details more correct.  it is likely that chopin based his entire career on only about 30 performances.  he must have been pretty good to be so secretive and yet people kept wanting to hear him.  there are other pianists like this today -right?  forget who was not much into playing for the general public.

oh.  and i want barry douglas to make a documentary, too, on his life and doings.  i think he's very cool because he's dabbled in so many things.  playing, composing, conducting, starting music schools in ireland because the arts program there was bad when he grew up. 

wouldn't mind seeing a movie about rachmaninov's entire life - or, famous women pianists like clara schumann.  i think a pianist i know by the name of beverly holt would play her to the tee.  she had floor length hair and i have no idea if clara did.  anyway - she kept it in a bun and played piano like nobody's business.  her fingers seemed rubbery and pliable when she played.  it was like some kind of 'aura' to hear her.

[pianistimo]

who could play victor borge?  maybe berrt?

[m1469]

mayla ... has a bit of a temper and petulance -and also reflection.

PIANISTIMO  , WHAT IN THE *** ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT   HOW DARE YOU PRETEND AS THOUGH YOU KNOW ME  .   AND THERE YOU GO SCRIPT-WRITING ME FOR A CHARACTER YOU HAVE ASSUMED ME TO BE, WITHOUT EVEN KNOWING WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.   

[pianistimo]

this is a pretend world and pretend script.  i do not know you - therefore i assume guilt.  ps  martha plays the piano pretty well - i was assuming that would be a compliment.  of course, i've not heard her play either and i don't know her from anyone.  i guess it's only media and maybe she's a lot different than her portrayals.  that's the problem with casting.  maybe even the character is off.  anyway - i think observing martha argerich practicing would be very interesting. 

if i were to cast myself - it would be probably something less intense.  i'm curious what a day at julliard would do to me.  i'd call the movie 'a day at julliard.'  i'd see all these people that play really well - get depressed - and go into a practice room and just be silent.  usually i'm the one that's banging away.  but, can you imagine - you hear beautiful music all around and who wants to practice with that going on.

plus would i be able to understand what jerome lowenthal was saying?  would we be able to even communicate?  what if my english skills made him ignore me.  i'd have to keep tapping him on the shoulder. 

[bernhard]

who could play victor borge?  maybe berrt?

Lang Lang

[arbisley]

hmm. shine?  i've not seen that one.  do they go psychotic at the end?  (*wonders if it might be true to life).  just kidding.  slightly.

well, as a matter of fact, the pianist goes bonkers playing a concerto (Rachmaninov I think)!!!!