If you don't teach with method books....

[Bob]

... how do you gradually increase the difficulty or gradually add new ideas? 

Someone has ordered the ideas for me.  I like that.  I would think I was leaving something out without the method book.

With just using pieces, how can you look at so many to know the student is having a challenging, but attainable, step?  And then with a lot of students...

I would guess you have a large list of pieces, graded by difficulty, and then you would have prepared speaking for the concepts they need to cover.  Instead of the method book, the student goes through a path of pieces.  Is that it? 

What about a theory book?  I would also think that a teacher teaching without method books might be doing more theory and ear training anyway though.


What about the idea of using a method book and other pieces?  That's what I tend to do.  I like how the ideas are already planned out and "baby stepped" in the method books, but they need some extra pieces, not just the method book.

I think I'm getting blurry on what "teaching with a method book" is and what "teaching without a method book" is. 

[bernhard]

... how do you gradually increase the difficulty or gradually add new ideas? 

It is not that complicated. Just let the student decide what he wants to play. The worst case scenario is the one where the student is a child who has been brought to you because the parents want him/her to play but s/he is not at all interested. You then have to decide if you are going to take the child or not. If you do, then you will have a lto of preliminary work to do (= musci apreciation) before you can actually do anything really meaningful.

Someone has ordered the ideas for me.  I like that.  I would think I was leaving something out without the method book.

Then perhaps you should use method books. I don´t like that at all. And in general I disagree with almost everthing in the method book. So I don´t use them.

With just using pieces, how can you look at so many to know the student is having a challenging, but attainable, step?  And then with a lot of students...

Er... it is usually pretty clear after a couple of lessons if the piece he has selected is easy, challenging difficult or impossible. If it is not easy or challenging, then a different piece must be chosen. Sure this will require a teacher that knows a lot of repertory. So, start collecting pieces. The forum has already hundreds, maybe thousands of graded pieces that have been suggested over the years. Stop pussyfooting around and get to work!

I would guess you have a large list of pieces, graded by difficulty, and then you would have prepared speaking for the concepts they need to cover.  Instead of the method book, the student goes through a path of pieces.  Is that it? 

No, that is not it at all. A piece is selected not because it covers this or that concept, or because it will develop this or that technique. The piece is selected because the student would love to play it. That is it. Nothing else and nothing less. Now, in order to be abel top paly the piece s/he will need to address certain concepts and techniques pertaing to that piece, so one addresses them. Technique and concepts are addressed on an "as-needed" basis. They do not guide the choice of repertory. Love for the piece guides the choice of repertory. The choice of repertory guides the concept/technique acquisition, not the other way round.

What about a theory book?  I would also think that a teacher teaching without method books might be doing more theory and ear training anyway though.

A theory book is useful as a reference. It is also useful as material that the student can tackle on his own without need to waste lesson time for that purpose. Most theory should be learned in relation to the piece, by carefully and thoroughly analysing it. Again theory material is not provided on an emptly context (the logical method) but on an "as needed" basis in accordance to the piece requirements. Some teachers get scared that the theory knowledge so gained will be "patchy", but this will only happen if the studnet learns one or two pieces. By the time he has 20 pieces in his repertory (with my studenst this means 3 - 6 months), they will have covered most of the theory by simply analysing the pieces. And they will never forget it, because the knwoledge they have been imparted has meaning for them.

What about the idea of using a method book and other pieces?  That's what I tend to do.  I like how the ideas are already planned out and "baby stepped" in the method books, but they need some extra pieces, not just the method book.

Thankfully, piano teaching is not a regulamented profession, so you can do whatever you want. Personally I think it is a waste of time.

I think I'm getting blurry on what "teaching with a method book" is and what "teaching without a method book" is. 

Then you should try this experiment. Choose 3 students and teach them using exclusively method books. Follow the book strictly. Then with another three students, just use the repertory. No method book at all.  Make sure the 3 students of each groups are similar in respect to everyhting (phisicality, piano experience, etc.) so that whatever differences you may observe both in your students and in yourslef while teaching one way or the other can be traced mostly to your teaching style. After 6 months, compare results and tell us about your findings.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[quasimodo]

Well, after all, once the student has learned the very basics (posture, where are the notes on the keyboard and so on...), a method book is but a collection of pieces, so I guess the answer is already in your post: if you don't want to use method books, you need to have a wide knowledge of the repertoire, the list of pieces graded not only by difficulties but also by the specific technique(s) they deal with and, on the other hand, you also set a progressive list of the technical aspects you want to introduce to your student. Also, maybe you will want to help the student to reach his/her specific goals if any.
IMO, what a method book aims at is precisely to attempt a systematic approach of these different techniques (basically scales, arpeggios, chords and then some common patterns like double-notes, octaves, accompaniment lines etc.) You can definitely do that without a method book.
The biggest point in piano learning is co-ordination, though, and unfortunately no method book is giving an broad "method" to acquire that, so at the end of the day the most important teaching you are to provide your student, you'll have to figure out by yourslef which strategy to use according to the specific person you're dealing with  .

[Bob]

Bernhard, how are the students getting the music?  Do you supply it, is they buy it by the individual piece, do they have a few anthologies that have most of the pieces....?

And you have your own library of all the pieces? Recordings too?

[bernhard]

Bernhard, how are the students getting the music?  Do you supply it, is they buy it by the individual piece, do they have a few anthologies that have most of the pieces....?

And you have your own library of all the pieces? Recordings too?

Yes.
Sometimes.
No.

Yes.
Yes.
 

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[Bob]

I see.  The student picking their own pieces would have a lot of impact on their motivation.  What about students who only want to play one style of music though?  I would be worried about them not getting a "complete" education in piano then.  I always try to pick new composers and styles.

[Bob]

Here you go Bob.... 

Topic: Choosing the pieces - Student or Teacher ?? 
https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,19032.0.html


Thanks Bob....

[keyofc]

Bob,
It sounds to me like you would be a lot more comfortable with a method book.
I use Michael Aaron and Faber mostly.
The more you teach, the less you begin to use the books, but they are very helpful
to me. 
I always give a student a goal sheet that they work on throughout a six month period
of time for technique and theory as they are working on the method books.
If they really like a piece of music that's not in the method book - I use sheet music
as a reward for them when they get a few pieces in the method book down.

I have found this helpful.
In the long run, people who don't use method books are pretty much the same people
that may end up writing one anyway.  And they won't think there's anything wrong with buying them then. 

I like to use theory books.  I am more of a creative person - so I need to have the theory in steps for the kids.  I prefer to skip the theory - but I feel it does them a disservice if I do.  I'm not a systematic theory person so it helps a lot for me to use a book.

[bernhard]

In the long run, people who don't use method books are pretty much the same people
that may end up writing one anyway.  And they won't think there's anything wrong with buying them then. 

Exactly! (Bernhard´s method on the way! )

[bernhard]

I see.  The student picking their own pieces would have a lot of impact on their motivation.  What about students who only want to play one style of music though?  I would be worried about them not getting a "complete" education in piano then.  I always try to pick new composers and styles.

Er... why not let them worry about not getting a complete piano education?

Sure, beginners may be stuck on a certain style, but as they come to lessons and see you playing other stuff, see their fellow students playing other stuff, go to concerts, listen to CDs, etc, they will expand their horizons,

Here is an idea: Get two students with complete different tastes. Introcduce them and give them the following project: to show each other the best examples they can come up with of their favourite style. So you get someone who loves Choin and hates Bach and vice-versa. The Chopin guy has to introduce the Bach guy to Chopin and vice versa.

Now for the real world. A lot of very famous pianists were very narrow minded in their choice of repertory. Prokofiev played mostly Prokofiev. Rachmaninoff played mostly Rachmaninoff. Chopin, played mostly Chopin. Gould and Tureck palyed mostly Bach. Serkin played mostly Beethoven and a few German composers. If they can get away with it, why not your students?

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[rlefebvr]

I see.  The student picking their own pieces would have a lot of impact on their motivation.  What about students who only want to play one style of music though?  I would be worried about them not getting a "complete" education in piano then.  I always try to pick new composers and styles.

Why not use a ABRSM style of book then, where the student can pick and learn a piece from each period including a etude, plus scales and so forth.

They get to learn different styles and then can decide which one they prefer and it gives them something to shoot for every year as they go up the ladder. Certainly beats the crap out of method books.

[ingagroznaya]

I personally use Alfred till level 3. We go through 10 mini books in about a year, after that we are free ( from Alfred ). Knowing intermediate repertoire well clearly helps. I feel before my students can afford some freedom they need a lot of structure.