Who sez our diatonic scales notes don't exist in nature?

[barnowl]

"The dunes at Sand Mountain in Nevada sing a note of low C, two octaves below middle C. In the desert of Mar de Dunas in Chile, the dunes sing slightly higher, an F, while the sands of Ghord Lahmar in Morocco are higher yet, a G sharp."

From today's (7/25 NY Times) Science Times. Read the rest at...

https://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/25/science/25find.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

Then, if you want to hear the sounds go to...

nytimes.com/science

Hope you enjoy it.

[barnowl]

It seems that you have to move the sand around to make it sing. Turn your Sound on and go to...

https://www.lps.ens.fr/~douady/SongofDunesIndex.html

...then click on each picture to hear the songs(?)

I doubt you'll go away humming a dune tune.

[pianistimo]

ooh.  you are proving my point about the relativity of music to everything.  you know.  mother's heartbeat.  birdsong.  glass harmonicas.  pitches that dogs can hear.  continuous vibrations around us (electrically charged).

even when we think we are in complete silence - there's some form of quiet noise. 

my favorite insect - the cricket - is my husband's nemesis.  he kills them randomly.  but, i like the night noise.  it's comforting.

now, to the point about DIATONIC notes - must look into that.  maybe also, the overtone series.  would be interested at what pitches the ancient drums that we have uncovered would sound at.  were ancient people interested in basic C and G as well?  the lyre.  guess that the main notes were often singable ones.

don't you think the heavens are the only thing 'quiet' and yet - from a distance we can see the reasons (stories in the constellations) for the various imagery in music.  basic basic.  the moon. the stars (formations) they form a pictural image of the simplicity of the universe (and yet a very sophisticated universe).

i think pitches and numbers go well together, btw.  the number of vibrations we know as A is 440 right?  and if you want an octave above - it is doubled =880.  now, the golden mean could be used for anything created that has a sort of measurement of proportion as important notes to a scale/or melody.  constellations do! certain stars are clustered more in one area than another.  similar to a melody using several of the same notes to create importance.

[timothy42b]

There are cultures that have more notes in an octave than the western diatonic scale.

Some have 14 to 22 notes.  Think of listening to sitar music, for example.

Those musicians have perfect pitch just like Western musicians do, but strangely enough only for the western diatonic notes.  Weird, huh? 

[barnowl]

I don't know about the quietude of the Universe, Pianistimo. There's a lot of tumultous stuff going on - Galaxies colliding, Novas exploding, Quasars and Pulsars beaming, Black Holes roaring...

I think if we were in deep space, the energy coming off all that stuff (and God knows what else) would be impacting our space ship. Wouldn't we hear a cacophony of noise? In the vacuum of of space, there is no noise, I suppose, but with the air in the space ship transforming the energy into sound, maybe we'd hear lots of things.

Do we have an astronomer on Piano Street who will comment?

[barnowl]

There are cultures that have more notes in an octave than the western diatonic scale.

Some have 14 to 22 notes.  Think of listening to sitar music, for example.

Those musicians have perfect pitch just like Western musicians do, but strangely enough only for the western diatonic notes. Weird, huh? 

I wish you'd amplify on that last point, Timothy. It's absolutely fascinating!

[barnowl]

I wish you'd amplify on that last point, Timothy. It's absolutely fascinating!

ON SECOND THOUGHT, TIMOTHY42B, THE TOPIC IS TOO GOOD TO BURY IN AN INCONSEQUENTIAL THREAD LIKE THIS ONE. PLEASE OPEN A THREAD OF YOUR OWN TO TELL US ABOUT PERFECT PITCH OF SITARISTS AND OTHERS.

[tac-tics]

The deepest bass singer in the Universe.
https://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/blackhole_note_030909.html

[barnowl]

The deepest bass singer in the Universe.
https://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/blackhole_note_030909.html

WoW!!!

Thanks Tac-Tics, that's incredible stuff!

[pianistimo]

wow.  57 octaves?  not notes?  whatever is vibrating is going at a snails pace?  perhaps it is a giant snail burp.  seriously, i knew the universe was tied together with  music,love, and God - it's just i've never heard God or the angels sing yet - so the best we get is here on earth.

does gravity affect sound?

[tac-tics]

seriously, i knew the universe was tied together with  music,love, and God - it's just i've never heard God or the angels sing yet - so the best we get is here on earth.

If this article is at all related with your angel theory, the reason we can't hear them is becasue our ears aren't several lightyears in diameter.

does gravity affect sound?

The waves in this article technically aren't sound waves, they are radiation (light) with frequency far too low to see. But light and sound are both affected by gravity.

[bella musica]

I don't know about the quietude of the Universe, Pianistimo. There's a lot of tumultous stuff going on - Galaxies colliding, Novas exploding, Quasars and Pulsars beaming, Black Holes roaring...

I think if we were in deep space, the energy coming off all that stuff (and God knows what else) would be impacting our space ship. Wouldn't we hear a cacophony of noise? In the vacuum of of space, there is no noise, I suppose, but with the air in the space ship transforming the energy into sound, maybe we'd hear lots of things.

Do we have an astronomer on Piano Street who will comment?

There is no air in outer space so you wouldn't be able to hear anything at all.  Sound is made by air molecules vibrating and colliding, so if there is no air there can't be any sound.

[barnowl]

There is no air in outer space so you wouldn't be able to hear anything at all.  Sound is made by air molecules vibrating and colliding, so if there is no air there can't be any sound.

But there is air in the spaceship that Pianistimo and I were riding in. So the enrgy waves hit the exterior of the ship and stir the air inside —> sound.

Pianistimo heard it all. "Oh BarnOwl!" she exclaimed, ecstatically.  "It's a symphony of heavenly sounds!!!"  Ask her yourself.   

[tac-tics]

But there is air in the spaceship that Pianistimo and I were riding in. So the enrgy waves hit the exterior of the ship and stir the air inside —> sound.

This sounds quite romantic. But more likely, the radiation would kill you 

[barnowl]

This sounds quite romantic. But more likely, the radiation would kill you 

Not in my Saran-wrapped space ship, Tac-Tics.

For proof, note that Pianistimo and I are alive and well.

[pianistimo]

i was more worried about the heated gas.  what effect does saran wrap have on radiation.  maybe we'd have to wrap the ship and ourselves in it just for good measure.  several times?  but, then we have the issue of air again.  straws? 

can you imagine how these mascots feel during summer months.  we just saw the 'cow' that belongs to 'chick filet' at the park.  his inner fans had stopped working and he had to act all happy with the kids - when he was probably sweating like a pig.  he actually went up the slide area - but had to come back down the stairs because his body was too big for the slide. 

now - all i hear is 'let's go to chick filet - i want to see the cow.'  what does a cow have to do with a chicken.  all i gathered was on the back of the cow was a sign 'eat more chiken.'  what next? 

[quasimodo]

Hmmm, in nature there exist an infinity of notes that are not in the diatonic scale as well...
A=440 Hz after all is but an arbitrary convention that has been edicted in 1940, not so long ago.

[barnowl]

Hmmm, in nature there exist an infinity of notes that are not in the diatonic scale as well...
A=440 Hz after all is but an arbitrary convention that has been edicted in 1940, not so long ago.

Quasimodo, doesn't your hunch tell you that there's no such word as edicted? 
                                                           

[quasimodo]

Quasimodo, doesn't your hunch tell you that there's no such word as edicted? 
                                                           

okay, my bad, let's go for "agreed". English is only my third language.

[timothy42b]

I will have to check my source on the perfect pitch vs diatonic scale issue. 

It came up in a discussion on the trombone listserv.  As you probably are aware trombones are not limited to discrete notes, they can play continuously between named pitches.  This lead to a book recommendation that I found at the local library.  Now I'll have to track it down again. 

[pianistimo]

do you ever get the feeling that there is a certain note coming out of trees that woodpeckers hit?  perhaps it's dependent upon the size of the tree.  i thought i was hearing a D last time.

here's a guy that plays his hands:  www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5579711

click on the video clips.

[barnowl]

do you ever get the feeling that there is a certain note coming out of trees that woodpeckers hit?  perhaps it's dependent upon the size of the tree.  i thought i was hearing a D last time.

here's a guy that plays his hands:  www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5579711

click on the video clips.

I watched the clip. It's kind of creepy-funny.

Thanks. (I think.)