Faking it on organ

[timothy42b]

I may be "allowed" to cover for the organist's absence next Sunday.

I put this here rather than in Student's because I'm embarassed by what I am considering doing.

Knowing how slowly the minister chooses hymns, I won't get the hymns in time to learn them as written.  (Meaning, for me, about two years!  <grin> )

I can't sightread hymns.  But.  I can play I-IV-V-I in all keys, common tone style. 

What if I three-chorded like a guitar on the left hand, played melody with the right, and kept my feet as far from the pedals as humanly possible? 

How bad would that be?  or should I just come in with a bandage on my hands and a rueful look?  Does anybody do it this way in an emergency? 

[amanfang]

Well, I took organ for 4 semesters in school.  It's harder (to play well at least) than most people think.  Especially hymns.  What kind of organ are you playing on?  If it's an Allen, a lot of them have a "bass coupler."  You can play all 4 parts, and then bass coupler will automatically double the bass at an octave lower, so you wouldn't have to use the pedals.  I-IV-V-I "might" work - depending on the hymns.  Many hymns have a much more complicated harmonic structure than that, so it won't work very well, especially if people are singing parts.  I mean, Amazing Grace would be fine, but something like A Mighty Fortress is our God would probably not be fine.  See if you can get the music guy to give you the hymns further in advance than he normally would.  Just explain your situation.  It's probably your best bet.

[thalbergmad]

If it's an Allen, a lot of them have a "bass coupler."  You can play all 4 parts, and then bass coupler will automatically double the bass at an octave lower, so you wouldn't have to use the pedals. 

That has saved many a pianist who have had to play organ at short notice.

Thal

[pianistimo]

oh, thanks!  maybe faking is ok afterall?  (*remembers 'bass coupler')

[amanfang]

If you can manage to actually play it well, of course it's better than faking.  Last time I was at a certain church, they asked a girl to fill in on the organ who hadn't really played before.  So she decided to turn it up almost as loudly as it would do and turn on as much bass as she could and play with the pedals.  Needless to say, it was quite bad. 

[jakev2.0]

Must resist...temptation...to...joke...on....topic title....

bWAAHHAH!!!!!

[thalbergmad]

Must resist...temptation...to...joke...on....topic title....

bWAAHHAH!!!!!

I too was tempted, but turned down the opportunity.

Thal

[timothy42b]

I too was tempted, but turned down the opportunity.

Thal

Thank you for your forbearance - it is after all church.  <grin>   

Yes, it's an Allen.  I'll go look for the coupler.  It has preset registrations available which takes the difficulty out of choosing stops, and the shades work on both manuals, so volume is easy too. 

Hymns look easy but are deceptively hard, at least for me.  The only way to play them smoothly is to simplify the accompaniment, but maybe three guitar chords is too simple.  If I can get a look in advance I will go chord by chord.  Nobody sings parts so it is not necessary to play as written.  If I have to sightread, it's going to be melody against I and V7.

Umm.  I actually don't know them in minor.  Ah well, it'll be Picardy thirds the whole way, a new style of hymnology. 

[amanfang]

Well, if you're going to use the I-V7-I with common tones (assuming it's then V 6/5), you won't want to use the bass coupler, because it will double the leading tone on your V7 chord.

[timothy42b]

Well, if you're going to use the I-V7-I with common tones (assuming it's then V 6/5), you won't want to use the bass coupler, because it will double the leading tone on your V7 chord.

I didn't think of that, thanks.  Maybe I'd have picked up on it as soon as I sneak in to practice. 

Just found a high school kid who can play Rach, etc. 

But has never seen an organ and is not familiar with church services. 

Still, I have a week to get her up to speed.  Now I'm wavering.  An inexperienced pro vs an amateur hack who's been around churches 50 years. 

[quasimodo]

Must resist...temptation...to...joke...on....topic title....

bWAAHHAH!!!!!

That was the only valid reason for me to open the thread, randomly.

[pianistimo]

why don't you do a tandem and get the hymn book out together.  then, randomly choose pages (ripping the ones she knows out and putting them in a separate book).  then, when hymn time comes - you both sit up there and switch places according to the hymns that are chosen.

i used to work at least 1/2 to 1 hour a day (or every other day) when i was learning hymns.  that way - i learned the whole book.  they're not that hard really.  play one and you've practically learned them all.  i think it's in the melody as much as chords.  if you even play with one hand and get the melody right - it's ok. 

the hardest thing for me, back then, was to get the melody and the rhythm correct and to smoothly transition from verse to verse.  sometimes those hymn leaders don't know their left hand from right when it comes to leading and WAIT for you to make the moves.  other hymn leaders take charge and don't like it if you are giving the people a chance to finish the last note (actually take the four beats or whatever and allow for a deep breath in to start the next verse).  i dislike very much when hymns are sung without passion.  like mechanical.  and you have to work to keep up with the speed.  i think some are meant to be faster and others slower - but not so fast or slow as to be akward or gruesome. 

find a good singer - and write in the tempos that seem comfortable.  i wrote them for each hymn individually and only practiced them at the suggested tempo.  then, when i went to church - i would at least have an inkling of how fast or slow to take each one.  or, just sing them yourself and see what is best.  you probably are not the amateur you think you are.  just practice a lot!  and share the burden.  who knows, it might be great fun.  i used to do duets for hymns occasionally (special occasions).

[instromp]

When i first glanced at this thread I thought of something else besides "organ "   ....hehehe 

[johnny-boy]

Hey Timothy,

An organ isn't a forgiving instrument. It's much easier to fake piano. A mistake on the organ is “in your face” obvious.

I'd suggest buying the hymn book a head of time and jot down the chords above the melody line. Then it would be better to play the chords with the right hand and some kind of simple bass in the left hand. Play a few melody notes in the beginning until the congregation takes over with the singing.

Does the organ have a sustain mechanism. If it does you may be able to play the organ in a piano style.

Good luck!

Best, John

[timothy42b]

I got a look at the hymns and tried them out on piano.

One works very well with I-IV-V, the others suck. 

I've thought of an option that might sound good.  Load up the pedal with stops, couple the great to it, and play bass line only with the left hand, melody with the right on the swell.  That's more challenging than block chords but might be workable. 

Looks like I might not be playing, the high school kid may be willing.  But I always like to have a plan B. 

You're right about learning the hymns.  There are only 700 or so in most hymnals, at half hour each you could do them all in a year. 

[johnny-boy]

You're right about learning the hymns.  There are only 700 or so in most hymnals, at half hour each you could do them all in a year. 

Yeah, but you learn about a dozen and you know them all. Not much diversity in them.

Best, John

[timothy42b]

You're right about learning the hymns.  There are only 700 or so in most hymnals, at half hour each you could do them all in a year. 

Yeah, but you learn about a dozen and you know them all. Not much diversity in them.

Best, John

Some truth to that.  But I have to play out of the Episcopal Hymnal, the Lutheran Hymnal, and the Celebration Hymnal.  There is some overlap, but quite a difference in style.  Apparently the Catholics no longer have a hymnal.  Strange how that happened, I'd like to know the story. 

[quasimodo]

The title of this thread is definitely disturbing.

[pianistimo]

some guy on comedy central was joking about this subject (i won't get into details) and said he always faked it when he was not into the style of the girlfriend's work on his organ.    he said better than going two hours and not touching the right spots.  i thought it was very funny at first and then realized what a miserable condition he must have been in.  dr. ruth would best explain the details.  must be communication. whatever.  but, even that is like being an air traffic control person.  must be a combination of talent and probably believing that the person isn't faking.   what a disspointment for her to know that her husband or boyfriend was faking the whole time.  she probably thought she was really good when she'd finish him off in under a minute.  just wondering how he expressed it?

[timothy42b]

Well, Plan B didn't work at all.

I misread what you suggested about the "bass coupler."  I leapt to the conclusion that "Pedal to Great" meant you could play the great and pedal noises would come out. 

In fact, exactly the opposite happens.  There is apparently no way to couple in the manual to pedal direction, and I didn't find an octave coupler. 

I rewrote everything in simple block chords last night, now I'll give it a shot that way and see what happens.  The problem is I'm not good enough to pull it off, but I'm close enough to see I can get there some day, just not yet.  Frustrating. 

[pianistimo]

these immediate solutions are fine and good - but keep long term in mind.  get an organ teacher.  it's kinda fun.  the first thing i learned is that you're not supposed to look at the pedals.  so, every day just practice a few I  IV V I jumps.   then try some chromatic stuff.  heel toe heel toe... (white = heel  and black =toe)

after playing your favorite hymns for awhile you can just add it one pedal chord over and over when it comes up and then add two - and so forth.  it's really quite fun.  i think people expect that you will make mistakes if you are just learning.   

[pianochild]

thats funny 

[quantum]

Octave coupler?  You could just use 8' and 16' stops, that will give you octaves.  Lowest C with 16' on any manual, or the pedal equals lowest C on piano. 

[amanfang]

Personally I don't like 16 on the manuals.  It sounds too heavy. 

[timothy42b]

Personally I don't like 16 on the manuals.  It sounds too heavy. 

I like it on a pipe but not out of a speaker.  I'm not sure why. 

[amanfang]

There is definitely a difference in the quality of sound on a pipe vs electronic. 

[bernhard]

I know you have said that you cannot sight-read hymns.

However, I will go ahead and suggest this anyway:

"Hymn Tunes for the Reluctant organist" - arranged by Janet Cooper (Oxford University Press).

Here is the preface:

"[...] experience often shows that for the organist the successful performance of consecutive block harmonies infour parts calls for considerable skill [...] Janet Copper has an uncany instinct for what is needed fir what is needed in this particular field.

[...] Many who might otherwise feel at a disadvantage will now be able to play hymns with far greater assurance, and project a greater measure of confidence in their accompanying of this important aspect of church services; moreover they will not need to use the pedals. I hazard a guess that some of the less reluctant will also have cause to be grateful for these arrangements which lie so easily and logically under the fingers."

I use these as basic material for sight reading practice, and even though you may not sight read well, you will find that these are quite easy to do. Altogether there 165 well known hymns in the book.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[johnny-boy]

On an organ you don't have that sustaining pedal to use as a third hand.

I started on the organ before I studied piano (around puberty - only joking). They call the technique the "organ touch" (stop it; I can't stand it anymore).

With the "organ touch" you have to hold on to notes while going to others - otherwise there's a break in the music. On piano we often rely on the sustaining pedal for smooth transitions.

John

[johnny-boy]

I know you have said that you cannot sight-read hymns.

However, I will go ahead and suggest this anyway:

"Hymn Tunes for the Reluctant organist" - arranged by Janet Cooper (Oxford University Press).

Here is the preface:

"[...] experience often shows that for the organist the successful performance of consecutive block harmonies infour parts calls for considerable skill [...] Janet Copper has an uncany instinct for what is needed fir what is needed in this particular field.

[...] Many who might otherwise feel at a disadvantage will now be able to play hymns with far greater assurance, and project a greater measure of confidence in their accompanying of this important aspect of church services; moreover they will not need to use the pedals. I hazard a guess that some of the less reluctant will also have cause to be grateful for these arrangements which lie so easily and logically under the fingers."

I use these as basic material for sight reading practice, and even though you may not sight read well, you will find that these are quite easy to do. Altogether there 165 well known hymns in the book.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

I agree; hymns are excellent for sight reading. Start at the beginning of the hymn book and play through the entire book. Then find another one and start over again.

Best, John

[timothy42b]

I know you have said that you cannot sight-read hymns.

However, I will go ahead and suggest this anyway:

"Hymn Tunes for the Reluctant organist" - arranged by Janet Cooper (Oxford University Press).



Best wishes,
Bernhard.

Thank you!  That will be my next purchase.

I do not consider my skills static, even at my age (mid-50's).  I only mean I can't sightread them today and probably won't master it before this Sunday.  I don't expect to have to admit I can't do it forever!  Maybe next month.  or next year.   

[bernhard]

Thank you!  That will be my next purchase.

I do not consider my skills static, even at my age (mid-50's).  I only mean I can't sightread them today and probably won't master it before this Sunday.  I don't expect to have to admit I can't do it forever!  Maybe next month.  or next year.   

I suggest that you try to sight read it (in the comofrt of your won home - not publicly), you may be very sruprised how easy it is and how good it sounds (the arrangements are really good: everything is right under the fingers).

And I believe there is a second volume with more hymns.

Best wishes,
Bernhard

[timothy42b]

Well, the gig is over.

It was quite a learning experience.  There were some things I didn't expect.

I rewrote the hymns with simple block chords that were easier to reach, but followed the original cadence.  So it was simpler but not as simple as it could have been.  Mistake number one.  I should have done the easiest left hand two note chords possible. 

Second mistake, I did not expect any pressure.  I've played in public all my life, just never on keyboards.  Something about being in the front of the church with all those eyes turned up the adrenaline a notch or ten. 

Third mistake.  I learned the pieces to the best of my abilities at a comfortable tempo.  I started them out well within my speed.  The preacher, who has a powerful voice, then quickly ramped the tempo up to about double, which was beyond what I could play.  Instant crash and burn.  Which also didn't help the adrenaline.  You know when you keep playing chords and they all miss, and you keep hoping to land on one soon, and you don't?  But I didn't stop.  I dropped the left hand out and went to melody, then started adding in I chords where I could spot them, then the next easiest ones, etc.  There are lots of verses in Lutheran services so by the end I was probably getting 90% of the chords right.  I needed to have speed cushion here in case things got going, but instead I started at the edge of the envelope and got pushed over.  What I possibly could have done was throw in the rest of the preset stops and kick the expression pedal, and overpower them, force the congregation to go my speed.  But things were happening too fast for me to think of that. 

Fortunately I didn't use my real name.  Bernard, I don't think they were serious about you not working in this town again.  <g>

[bernhard]

Fortunately I didn't use my real name.  Bernard, I don't think they were serious about you not working in this town again.  <g>

As long as you spelled "Bernard", everything should be fine.

[amanfang]

Yeah, I was in a chapel service one time, and the piano gave the introduction, and then the organ came in in a different key.  Since the organ overpowered everything, we were all forced to sing in the same key as the organ.  That's the nice thing about the organ.  You have so much control.  Sure if turn it up as loud as it goes, everyone will hear your mistakes, but at least you're the one in charge.   

[timothy42b]

As long as you spelled "Bernard", everything should be fine.

Shorry abhout that, ghuess I type as well as I play ohrgan. 

Just got an email.  Holy crap, Bernhard, you got hired again after all.  I didn't expect it and was afraid to ask, but the hymns for next Sunday are 343, 197, and 224 out of the LBW (Lutheran Book of Worship.) 

Ahem.  I think this might be your last shot at it, and you might want to get the check in advance.  Hee, hee. 

[bernhard]

Shorry abhout that, ghuess I type as well as I play ohrgan. 

Just got an email.  Holy crap, Bernhard, you got hired again after all.  I didn't expect it and was afraid to ask, but the hymns for next Sunday are 343, 197, and 224 out of the LBW (Lutheran Book of Worship.) 

Ahem.  I think this might be your last shot at it, and you might want to get the check in advance.  Hee, hee. 

Maybe they thought you were doing a "Bach" stunt and did not want to be seen in a bad light by history.

(Bach used to improvise wildly on the organ when accompanying hymns, much to the dismay of the Lutheran congregations, who just wanted simple harmonies they could sing to. Bach got the rap and eventually the sack by the church elders for doing it, and now history uses them as examples of muscial mediocrity who could not recognise genius).

BW
B.

[bernhard]

Then again, you may just be cheaper than the competition.

[timothy42b]

Then again, you may just be cheaper than the competition.

Three congregations share this church building. 

The Catholics have no organist and use only an acoustic guitar.

The Generic Protestants have no organist and last time I was there did the hymns with solo viola.  They have a couple of electric guitars for a "Praise Band." 

The Lutheran/Episcopal congregation has a fine organist and does traditional hymns.  In his absence I have done hymns in software and burned to CD.  However, after one year of piano lessons! with my daughter's teacher, I now AM the competition.  Go figure.

 Yes I'm cheap - I'm free. 

[thalbergmad]

Instead of faking it next time, why not get one of these digital organs that are designed for home use. You can then practise pedalling.

Me az got one of these and it is complete quality.

Thal

[zheer]

Instead of faking it next time, why not get one of these digital organs that are designed for home use. You can then practise pedalling.

Me az got one of these and it is complete quality.

Thal

   That photo reminds of an organ we had in our flat when i was 11, you had to pedal the organ so that air went through as you playd on the keyboard.

[thalbergmad]

   That photo reminds of an organ we had in our flat when i was 11, you had to pedal the organ so that air went through as you playd on the keyboard.

haha, i played one of them once.

Better exercise than a cycle machine.

I think they is called harmoniums.

Me az read that one of the organs that Bach played, needed 11 men to work the bellows.
Sod that for a job.

Thal

[ahinton]

Me az read that one of the organs that Bach played, needed 11 men to work the bellows.
Sod that for a job.

Thal

No - 11 jobs. Thal, you really either cannot or will not count, can or will you?

Best,

Alistair

[thalbergmad]

No - 11 jobs. Thal, you really either cannot or will not count, can or will you?

Best,

Alistair

(well, 1 man for 1 job)

(sod that for 11 jobs don't sound right)

(Az you written anything for the organ) (?)

(Thal)

( )

[pianistimo]

wow.  that's a nice organ.   but where do you start?

[thalbergmad]

wow.  that's a nice organ.   but where do you start?

I normally plug mine in to start.

Thal

[pianistimo]

i'd just have a midgit come in and work the pedals.  personally i would be trying to figure out the three keyboards and allt he buttons.  but, organs occasionally have power surges.  what do you do then.  suddenly what you just played piano is sfz.  how do you deal with this?

the 'lower tonebars' is the very next 'note'/button to the left of my lower keyboard. when i hit that accidentally - everything is silenced.  i've hit it quite a few times.  can you prop certain buttons up so they don't accidentally get depressed?

[thalbergmad]

can you prop certain buttons up so they don't accidentally get depressed?

Dat is what the pistons are for.

innit

Thal

[pianistimo]

oh.  i see.  (silence)

[amanfang]

Tim - take heart.  Especially on the organ, no one is perfect....

https://home.comcast.net/~acrowe2852/Online_Storage/Messiahorganistoncrack.mp3

[timothy42b]

Snappy comeback time - Im quite proud of this one.

It remains to be seen whether the Lutherans will ask me back.  Their regular organist returns this Sunday.  Probably he'll get a candid report.

But the Protestant service requested me for the next two services.  I played the rehearsal last night and got asked the classic question, "Do you play piano as well?"

Seriously.  That's exactly how it was worded.  It floored me for a minute, I was momentarily at a loss for words.  But I recovered quickly and said,  "no, actually, I play piano just as badly!" 

One problem hymn is to the tune of the chorale part of Finlandia.  I look at the music, but my mind supplies that moving cello part and the trumpet fanfare, it is very distracting.