Dynamics contrary to a clavier?

[allchopin]

Assuming that in Bach's era (in which he wrote his preludes and fugues) he played a clavier such as a harpsichord, why did he have dynamics in his music?

[dj]

i do not believe that there were dynamics in his original scores, but rather, editors of newer editions have added the dynamics to accomodate the modern piano's capabilities. actually, my teacher tells me not to play the dynamics from modern transcriptions of bach because they were not originally meant to be there.

[eddie92099]

my teacher tells me not to play the dynamics from modern transcriptions of bach because they were not originally meant to be there.

I would tell you otherwise,
Ed

[dj]

Code: [Select]

I would tell you otherwise

for practice purposes or performance?

[dinosaurtales]

Both.  My teacher wants me to be expressive within a dynamic range.  For instance, in the French Suite #2 Allemande, First section first time through is mf, second time mp, Second section first time is mf, second time is mp.  I think she wants me to use expressions for the various voices without leaving the base dynamic range.  I haven't really figured out what all to do yet, but that's what she says.

[eddie92099]

for practice purposes or performance?

Both. Why would you want to sit and play Bach on a piano monotonously? I don't know of anyone who does...
Ed

[allchopin]

It's not whether or not one wants to play a certain way, but if one should.  I still have not heard a decent explanation (aside from dj's post) as to why there are dynamics in Bach's compositions.  If it is true that later editors added these ornaments, then would someone please reinforce this?

[dinosaurtales]

Not sure what kind of confirmation you are looking for.  I don't have scholarly proof as in original scores, but have been told by enough teachers and fellow musicians that most of Bach's music had no dynamic markings.  It seems self-explanatory that they would have been added later, since I see them in various books.  My Henle Urtext books do NOT show any dymanic markings at all, and my teacher has suggested dynamics to use that are conventional in modern performances.  I sort of assume she is referring to competitions and adjudicated performances, since that's where she spends most of her time.  There are some conventions, but my understanding of the period is that it was more *free* in  interpretation, so you could be daring and do whatever you wanted I suppose.

[eddie92099]

so you could be daring and do whatever you wanted I suppose.

If only more people would!
Ed

[allchopin]

Thank you, DinosaurTales- that makes sense, but why would anyone feel that they should make dynamic markings in Bach's music?  To spice them up?  I don't know about that; I would probably feel more assured playing the piano like an organ, so to speak.  But this is not what judges like to hear?

[dinosaurtales]

I can't speak for judges except what I surmise from my teacher's behavior.  I think the guys that do a lot of competitions can speak more about the comments that come back to them.  I do the dynamics because it makes the music more interesting.  After all, I have the technology now.  But I suspect based on my teacher's suggestions, that there are dynamic allowances that are considered a *safe bet* in the competition world.  Otherwise, I would guess you could do anything that sounded good to you.

[allchopin]

Will do.  I guess it all depends on the publisher, because my version (from sheetmusicarchive, of course) has dynamics written in.

[Noah]

By all means play Bach with dynamics, but adjust your dynamic range to the music. I think the dynamics in Bach are very intuitive.

[Hmoll]

Cristofori didn't invent the piano in a vacuum. He invented the instrument because there was a demand among composers and keyboard players for an instrument that could make dynamic changes through touch - not just by changing registers or manuals.

What that tells me is Bach and other composers - and players - thought this would be a good thing, and would make full use of it. Also, the clavichord did have the ability to vary dynamics by way of touch - however the dynamic range is probably pp to mp. Not only that, you could execute vibrato on a clavichord.

Bachs music is primarily contrapuntal, and it sounds ridiculous if you play every voice at the same dynamic, and the entire piece at the same dynamic.  When playing a fugue, you constanty have to consider which voice(s) to bring out more. In addition to that, you have to use dynamics to shape each phrase.

That said, you have to be careful in following the dynamics in certain editions of Bach - especially Czerny, which you should not use anyway - because they may not be stylistically correct.

So, the answer is: you always have to use dynamic contrast in Bach, but you don't always have to follow a particular edition.

BTW, it is a misconception that Bach never added dynamics to his keyboard music. There are several examples where he did.