Beethoven Sonata op.10 No.1 (Help needed!)

[xamy]

I need practice methods for the following:

2nd mouvement:

bars 17, 19 and 21:
How fast are these "small" notes ment to go? Also does anyone have any good fingering? At the moment I am doing 3 2 1 4 3 2 1 2 in bar 17 and the same in bar 19.

bars 28-30 and 75-77
In these two (similar) passages I struggle both with the timing and hitting the notes cleanly and accurately.  At the moment all I am doing is practicing slowly and it is slowly improving, but I still think it will take a very long time. Are there any special ways to approach these tricky bits?

3rd mouvement:

bars 12-15: Struggling to get this bit up to speed while retaining the clarity of the notes. I noticed that as soon as I go to fast, notes start overlapping.

bars 34 and 35: the cross rythms! Tremolando (4 notes) in the right against tripplets in the left hand. Just can't get it right and don't really no how to approach it systematically. At the moment im just playing though hoping it will miraculously come together!

If anyone could give me a few hints I would be most grateful!

Thanks!

Oh and if anyone is looking for a new piece, this sonata is pretty good, the 2nd movement is amazing!

[faustsaccomplice]

Hey xamy,

Here's a little input.  In bars17, 19, 21 of the 2nd movement, the last note of the arpeggio (the one that's big again) needs to arrive on the 2nd beat.  You can cut into the quarter note on the first beat to give yourself time, but not more than and eighth beat...but in this Adagio molto, it won't be hard.  I'd recommend (and of course I have no idea what the size of your hand is) m17 4321 4321; m19 321 4321 2or3; m21 if you use the rh: 5421 421, or if you use the lh: 1241245.  Heinrich Shenker says that this final arpeggio (m21) must be fit into the last sixteenth of the first beat.  It's good thinking, and you can even push it back a little bit if you need. 

In measures 28-30: first of all, remember that it doesn't need to be metronomic, as long as it's rhythmic.  Play them lightly and feel the 32nd beats (three descending notes).  I remember when I was younger these parts were frustrating for me too, and though I can probably move my fingers faster than I used to, just taking it easy has really made a difference.  Don't stress about the notes being fast.  Let the music push and pull a bit.  Besides, there's nothing worse than a Beethoven adagio played too straight.

3rd movement bars 11-15.  Be sure that you practice the whole movement at a certain speed so that you feel the relative speeds of the sections.  For this part, there are a few things, and it's hard to say without watching you play it.  If your fingertips are weak, practicing with an emphasis on the last joint of your finger.  The other thing is to make sure that you start VERY soft and hold off on your crescendo reaching forte until the moment the f appears in the score.  Even in the first beast of measure 13, you should be at a mp or mf.  Also, let the lh be the leader here (not necessarily the louder) which more or less forces the rh to play in time.  This is easier said than done, but you'll get it eventually.

The cross rhythms: I'll assume that you know how to make a three against four, mathematically speaking (pass-thegod-dam-butter).  But when you actually play it, you need to focus on lining up the beats, and not the ratios.  Doing this well takes time, and you'll eventually be good at it.  But even many professionals aren't so exact on parts like these (I mean exact the way Gould or Hamelin would be, just to name a couple obvious ones).  But a professional will always at least line up the beats.
A good way to accomplish this is to be sure that you know the sound of the beat.  For example, in m33 2nd beat, you know hos the f with the d above it sounds, and then you know how the c with the d above it sounds for the 3rd beat, and so on.  If you are always aiming for the beats, the notes will line themselves up pretty well, you'll see (but it takes more than one day of work).

Good luck, and let me know if you have any more questions.

[xamy]

Hey faustsaccomplice!

Thanks very much for taking time to write all that down! I'll print it out and have it as a reference when practicing these bits.

If anyone has any other suggestions, please say!