Liszt's Sonnet 104: Comments PLEASE!

[sjskb]

Another of my concert piece for my debut recital that is going to take place in September. This is recorded in a studio, not live. 

thanks in advance. 

[faustsaccomplice]

You can play well, it is clear.  Your bold sound is impressive, and you cature the overt urgency of the piece. 

I feel like you could have more variety in sound.  I was often wishing there would be a more dreamy quality to it, especially in the e major theme with the arpeggios in the lh.  You can let it float here.  In many places you could let the sound get a bit hazy as the phrases are sculpted. 

You can caress the piano more.  Be a lover when you play this.  The big climax on the third page can be bigger, but you don't need to try, the writing will almost do it for you. 

Your opening is a bit vulgar, too.  I'd give it some more thought, personally. 

Petrarch:
Grasp the whole world, yet nothing can obtain...

There's something to that line that deserves your attention.

This is one of Liszts most sexual pieces of music.  After the thirds passage that resolves to G major (which you play very well), you can lay back in your bed and smoke a cigarette until the end of the piece.

You could play this anywhere now.  It's strong, stable, and rather respectable.  Let it be more lusty and I think you'll have something memorable.

[sjskb]

Wow,

   Thank you very much for your thorough comments!!! I do agree that the opening could be more sensitive. What I had in mind your pure agitation and frustration. I got this idea from the first line of the poem. 

"I feel like you could have more variety in sound.  I was often wishing there would be a more dreamy quality to it, especially in the e major theme with the arpeggios in the lh.  You can let it float here.  In many places you could let the sound get a bit hazy as the phrases are sculpted."

May I know which section are you referring to? The beginning after the agitato, or the last page of the score? (both have E major arpeggios) 

all right...lusty is the word  ....by the way, I don't smoke...lol

[faustsaccomplice]

I was referring to the second page.

[sjskb]

nobody else wants to critique?
 

[rachfan]

Hi sjskb,

I would have commented on this earlier, but I've been too busy listening to your Scriabin Fantasy, which I love.   This Sonetto 104 was written for tenor voice, so must be songful in this piano transcription-- that is, bel canto.  And it calls for a good deal of breathing.   This is a very sensual piece.  Relative to the exuberance of youth, it captures both the sentimental and declamatory moods.  There is a bittersweet quality to this music, and you succeed in bringing much of that out.

While the mood is agitato, there is no tempo marking as such.  My sense is that you could slow the tempo a bit in order to luxuriate more in the playing.  I am not as critical of your variety of dynamics or lack of dreaminess here as faustsaccomplice, although I respect those thoughts.  My own recording of this piece is over on page 4 of the Forum.  Yours is by far the better rendition.  I wish I could play the piece nearly as well as you do!

There is a great temptation in this piece to inject so much poetry through expressiveness, nuance, etc., that it can become too subjective, thereby deviating from Liszt's intentions, and even becoming a meaningless wallowing in pathos.  I can tell you've come to that same conclusion.   I was concerned when playing it that I would be so absorbed in the tumultuous sentiments, that I would unwittingly introduce excessive rubato, play too much ad libitum to the point where the structural elements--tempo, rhythm, and phrasing would suffer.  So if I had to err, it was always on the side of structure--perhaps too much so.  I sense in your playing that you were similarly concerned about the need to preserve form and structure in your playing in order to avoid excessively subjectivity in your interpretation, and to allow the true meaning to emerge for the listener.   Yet you were able to introduce much expressiveness too.  So I believe you struck a good balance there between structure and poetry. 

Again, I do believe if you could slow your tempo, you could enhance those effects even more by emphasizing the lyrical nature of the piece, more so than the bravura elements, which are short cadenzas meant as momentary flights of fancy as the poet reflects and reminisceses.  Remember, the technique (and you have a big technique) serves the musical intent and line at all times.   

At the un poco piu lento toward the end, that needs to start in a more declamatory spirit, with high resolve, that same resolve then becoming more tentative and diminished, and melting into the final nostalgia of the coda.  The last roll in the final measure was too exaggerated and tenuous for me.  I recommend you tighten it up a bit.  Again, I think you do a very fine job with this sonnetto, but there is still some potential that you can draw upon.

It's late.  I'll listen to it again tomorrow, and if I have further thoughts, I'll add them.

Good work!!

P.S.  I just listened again, and liked your playing even more.  Here are a few minor technical suggestions:

Measure 9: Perhaps consider making more of the fermatas there.

Measure 13: (And several more like it throughout the piece.)  Here and elsewhere there are phrase endings involving dotted rhythms.  It's a difficult detail to manage, because we must execute the dotted rhythm, but also taper off the phrase ending.  It is the latter which is more important in my opinion.  In your execution, often the quarter note following the 16th note is of equal volume, but should be distinctly softer.  I suggest you try to quiet the quarter note a bit more in those instances to give more of a feeling of tapered lift-off at the phrase endings.

Measure 31: Although not indicated in the score, bringing that repetition down to p dynamic affords a nice quiet echo effect there, if it suits you. 

At the coda: It wouldn't hurt to make this even more adagio.  Right now it seems more lento.  You can luxuriate in the music in a slower adagio.

Measure 52: On the descending thirds in the RH, depending on your instrument, you might be able to keep the pedal down even longer than you do now without risk.  This section is dolce, there is a diminuendo beforehand, and the notes are up in the treble.  I find on the Baldwin, I can keep the pedal down even through the start of the portato thirds into the first three thirds of measure 53 with no problem with clarity.  The notes of the triplet there, however, all need to be separately pedaled, I agree.  Baldwin has a slightly faster tone decay than Steinway, which permits this.  Yamaha is similar in that respect, which can assist you further in being more liberal with the pedal there.

Measure 54: If you play more smorzando there to make it really fade away, it would be  beneficial.

In the fouth to the last measure with the portato chords, at the second beat in the left hand: You play a broken chord there.  Does your edition call for that?  I have the Joseffy edition (Schirmer Library, which is hardly urtext, but still fine for Liszt).  It shows a solid chord there.   Just wondering.

That's it, I guess!  Again, I like your rendition a lot.  I wish I could play as well as you.

David
         

[sjskb]

hi rachfan,

    wow! once again, thank you very much for your time and effort, for giving me such a substantial and detailed critique of the piece. I had a nice time reading your post, while referring to the score... seems like you have studied the 104 very well!

    I do admit that my agitato beginning could have been done with more sensitivity. I found it very hard to execute that. (the hand splitting 10ths hinders any effort to add expressiveness unfortunately) 

    I also agree with you that my tempo of the bravura sections could be taken slower. I think the main reason I did it rather fast was that it's easier to play those flourishes fast than slow! hmm....
That big roll at the last chord was a suggestion by my teacher. Initially I did it normally.... I'm playing this in my recital soon, (3 weeks) will see how my mood goes that day. ha

     You know, in your measure by measure comments, I agree with everything you said!! we must have the same musical brain. For eg. at measure 13, I do try my very best to do a subito pp for the last crotchet of the phrase. It sounds very easy, but again, I find it almost impossible to execute it perfectly. It's a balance between ending a phrase nicely, yet having to do subtle dynamic changes and touches. will bear that in mind. thanks.

      as for the comment at measure 55, i'm not really sure about that chord. do u think it's important to stick to every instruction in the score? i guess it's more to do with interpretation or what comes out at-the-moment. It's not a strict baroque piece anyway. what are your views?

     once again, thanks very much for your useful comments..

cheers.

sjskb   

   


     

[rachfan]

Hi sjskb,

One of the problems in executing the introduction is opposing touches: the RH is tenuto while the LH is chromatic staccato, so the brain almost has to divide itself in playing it.   A technique that I find helpful there is to mentally premeditate the rhythm and the aural impression of the passage before actually playing it.  The agitato assai makes this introduction "very excited", but it does not have to be quite so excited!   

I had forgotten to mention that in measure 6 at the triplets, you might want to experiment more with allargando there.  Notice too that there is a rit. at that spot which facilitates the allargando.

In measures 15-17 you do a nice job creating the illusion of no pedal there.  You keep the RH rolls fairly quiet and brief, but could perhaps make them even less interruptive.

At 62 (marked cresc.... rinforz.), starting with that high G octave in the RH, try "pushing through" the descending scalar octaves more.  I think you'll like it.

Finally, I get to your question, haha!  On the LH roll in 55, generally we want to respect the score and play the piece as written, as I'm sure you'll agree; however, sometimes I think it's appropriate if the pianist on occasion "takes a liberty".  You mention Baroque.  When I was young, I was playing in a competition held the New England Conservatory of Music in Boston (I was not a student there) and adjudicated by their faculty.  One of the pieces I was presenting was Bach's "Prelude and Fugue" No. 2 in Cm.  At the end of the fugue--and it was not put there by Bach--I added as a flourish a little appogiatura forming a nice picardy third.  (The jury had the score open, of course.)  No eyebrows shot up into the air, nobody passed out, and the world didn't end.  In fact, the jury didn't comment on it at all.  I now surmise that the jury knew that Bach loved improvisation, that the picardy third was a device sometimes used by Bach himself, and that the liberty I took was in good taste and in the character of the baroque style.  As it turned out, I advanced and played in the finalists' recital.   

But again, I believe in general that we must be extremely judicious in making any deviation from a score.  What is the musical justification?  The still tougher question you must ask is this: If Liszt were here listening to this, what would he think of the rolled chord?  Liszt was experimental, intrigued by possibilities, and always open to ideas.  So you would have to guess his verdict in the matter.  If you feel confident about it, then go with it! 

   

[sjskb]

wow...rachfan, u are a great critique.... you should work for some newspapers or something

it's such a pity I can't have you here to watch my recital..

[rachfan]

Hi sjskb,

I'm just glad that my suggestions were helpful to you.  Let me wish you the best for your recital!  I'm sure you'll do very well.