Help... I have 3 lessons to make a 10-year old kid like music

[kghayesh]

My uncle wants me to teach his son. I tried with him a couple of lessons, but he doesn't seem to be much into piano (as most kids). I understand this and I won't teach anyone who is not interested.
But, again my uncle insists and tells me to teach my 10-year old cousin again. We decided to have 3 lessons and then after that see if he still doesn't like it, we'll stop.

So,  I have 3 lessons to make him like music !!! I don't know what to do really. I need suggestions what to do to make him enjoy it.

I taught him the C major scale HS and taught him how to read the treble clef. He understands well and has no problems in that, but I don't think he was really enjoying it.

Suggestions are welcome...

[pianowolfi]

My experience is, you can do your best in doing good lessons, but you can't persuade or convert somebody to like music. The more you try, the less it would work. So try to stay objective and unintentional. Forget about persuading or converting. You have a limited contract with that kid and after three lessons both are free to quit. Just do what you always do in the first lessons, I wouldn't try to make an extra teaching program for this case. Just my opinion.

[kghayesh]

My experience is, you can do your best in doing good lessons, but you can't persuade or convert somebody to like music. The more you try, the less it would work. So try to stay objective and unintentional. Forget about persuading or converting. You have a limited contract with that kid and after three lessons both are free to quit. Just do what you always do in the first lessons, I wouldn't try to make an extra teaching program for this case. Just my opinion.

Thanks for the advice, but I don't really have any teaching experience before !!!

[bernhard]

I taught him the C major scale HS and taught him how to read the treble clef. He understands well and has no problems in that, but I don't think he was really enjoying it.

Suggestions are welcome...

I wonder why he was not enjoying it....

First lesson: Tell him to play whatever he wants. Make noise. Play with fists, with feet, with his bum (Vitor Borge does it to great effect on the Hungarian Rhapsody). Show him how to do it - you do not wnat to get labelled as as solemn, stuffy teacher, do you?
If your uncle finds it strange, tell him you are teaching him modern music (e.g. Finnissy)

Then when he gets tired of making noise, tell him to play anything he wants with his fingers, as long as it is on the black keys (it will always sound good). From time to time do some black key improvisation so that he has a model to aim for.

If you have time (a first lesson should not last more than 15 minutes), teach him a simple duet (e.g. "The Chinese Clock"; "Blue moon") and play four hands with him.

His home assignment: Bring for the next lesson a list of pieces he would love to be able to play. At the end of the lesson you can show him some really easy but nice pieces. If he likes any....

Second lesson - teach him by rote (you play, he imitates) the easy nice piece he selected from the ones you showed him the previous lesson. Have a look at his list to see if there is anything appropriate he can learn on the third lesson.

Do more improvisations/duets.

Third lesson: Start working on one piece of his list. Use the piece to teach about sight-reading, scales and so on (the pragmatical method) rather than what you are doing (the logical method - teaching a C major scale for which there is no musical context - that is, a reason for doing it he can understand).

By then he should be hooked.

And of course read all of this stuff:


https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,587.msg14335.html#msg14335
(How to teach a 5-year old to read music – Candida Tobin)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,1884.msg14708.html#msg14708
(Motivating children – joining the child’s model and using other children’s accomplishments to motivate)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2047.msg16848.html#msg16848
(what to do with children crying)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2077.msg17179.html#msg17179
(How to become a teacher)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2115.msg17860.html#msg17860
(the advantages of a teacher – comparison with typing)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2125.msg17864.html#msg17864
(Age limitations – Barenboins’s there are only bad teachers philosophy)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2192.msg18542.html#msg18542
(methods for very young students – Candida website)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2246.msg19041.html#msg19041
(Young teachers – why young/bad teachers are not a problem – When the student is ready the right teacher will appear)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2260.msg19270.html#msg19270
(Dear Bernhard thread – Pieces leading up to the revolutionary)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2032.msg19339.html#msg19339
(How to become a piano teacher – good advice from minsmusic – the pitfalls as well as the requirements)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2273.msg19432.html#msg19432
(what to do when a student has not practised)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2192.msg21823.html#msg21823
(How to teach very young students – the historical method, the pragmatical  x logical method and total exposure as the best way for under-5s)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2907.msg25589.html#msg25589
(how to teach chords to young children)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2906.msg25591.html#msg25591
(How to organise a lesson syllabus – analogy with cooking)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2970.msg25991.html#msg25991
(Areas of study for a complete music syllabus – books for each area)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2979.msg26080.html#msg26080
(Methods)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2994.msg26162.html#msg26162
(Teaching little brats – recorder rules)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,2972.msg26178.html#msg26178
(advantages and disadvantages of teaching by rote – good for the teacher)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,3014.msg26427.html#msg26427
(How to deal with bad students – using the student for experiments)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,3066.msg26951.html#msg26951
(Teaching or playing – learning with the student)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,3442.msg30359.html#msg30359
(How to choose your next piece – impossible/easy pieces)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,3524.msg32403.html#msg32403
(adults learn faster than children)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,3783.msg34200.html#msg34200
(how to teach super motivated students)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,143.msg35967.html#msg35967
(differences in learning/teaching children and adults)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,3891.msg35968.html#msg35968
(Types of students. Good and bad attitudes displayed by students)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4020.msg36635.html#msg36635
(What to teach a 4-year old in his first lesson)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4269.msg39706.html#msg39706
(Helping a student get rid of bad habits)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4336.msg40366.html#msg40366
(handling transfer students – the 3 most important areas in piano teaching)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4321.msg40373.html#msg40373
(why do you teach? – policies and teaching methods –pragmatical theory of memory)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4405.msg40979.html#msg40979
(method books)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4417.msg41108.html#msg41108
(scolding students – students from hell, their attitudes and appropriate responses – start from the idea that student is put on your path for your benefit, not his – joining the model of the student – using their energy rather than yours – analogy to martial arts – use students form hell to learn this art – logic x psychology x philosophy – example of learning piece backwards- steve wonder is god silogism – analogy with reading)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4269.msg41284.html#msg41284
(teaching a child with bad habits – aim is not for the student to get better, but for the teacher to get better – use pieces the student love – outlining x simplification – how small hands can cope with octaves – fingering)

https://pianoforum.net/smf/index.php/topic,4002.msg46084.html#msg46084
(m1469 describes the philosophy of a Russian teacher – the pragmatic method and doing wrist locks on students)

 

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[bernhard]

Unless of course, you do not really want to teach him, and would rather use his dislike of music as an excuse.

In that case:

Lesson 1 - Hanon,
Lesson 2 - Hanon.
Lesson 3 - Hanon.

 

BW
B

[dorie]

I'm not a teacher (and in fact just an adult beginner student), but my 7 yo son was just annoying me to death  asking me to teach him something on the piano (he has severe ADHD and lousy coordination so normal lessons would be a waste at this point).

I taught him Denes Agay's "Mysterious Procession" in about 15 minutes.  He thought it was a hoot because he could do it loud, soft, fast slow.   I never even showed him the music

[ingagroznaya]

First lesson: Tell him to play whatever he wants. Make noise. Play with fists, with feet, with his bum

I could see how playing with my bum would work for some of my adult male students. As a kid, though, I would be genuinely insulted by this sort of introduction to the piano.

The kid in question is 10 years old!

[cora]

I doubt very much this will work out.

I would say do your best to teach him what you ordinarily would teach a beginner. I wouldn't worry so much about if he is enjoying himself. That's his responsibility. I would just concentrate on an organized, laughter-filled,  second lesson.

Have you taught piano before?

[debussy symbolism]

Greetings.

I would say that you should make the the lessons more enjoyable by setting up a do and reward system of practice at first. Make it exciting, such as him getting reward "points" or whatever that would get him what he wants. Better yet, you should set up a "points" system for every student( or for only the kids at least), with the student who gets the most points gets to gloat. That will hopefully excite him or make him practice none the less.

[ingagroznaya]

Get him Alfred's Lesson Book A1.
Go through pages 3 to 17 - first lesson (45 minutes).
Lesson number two - pages 18 to 26    (45 minutes).
Lesson number three - pages 27 to 39  (45 minutes).

It takes three more lesson to finish the book. Get Flash Cards Level 1A and make sure he is prepared for his next lesson, depending what next lesson will cover. If in 6 weeks he will have no sense of accomplishment, no bum playing or standing on your head will help.

[kghayesh]

Ok, bernhard, thank you so much but i am not sure this is the appropriate introduction to music. He is 10 years old and his mentality is almost mature yet. We talk about football, movies and many other things.

I think that can be excellent for a 5-7 year old.

[quasimodo]

I could see how playing with my bum would work for some of my adult male students.

You let your adult male students play with your bum  ?

[ingagroznaya]

You let your adult male students play with your bum  ?

I currently don't follow Bernhard method, but if and when mine fails - I think I should give it a fair try. Ya never know, they could be playing Rahmaninov in 2-3 months. Bernhard surely sounds convincing.

[pianistimo]

ingagroznya, this is also shocking.  between you and boliver?!  i mean you are both shocking.  but, his is moreso because he wants to be a chaplain?! at least you don't profess to becoming a nun or something. 

as i see it - why make it three lessons?  who made up this arbitrary figure?

there was a movie on a few nights ago about a kid who didn't want to go to college.  his mother tried desperately to get him to at least visit the campus - so he went (to please her) with the mother's best friend.  the best friend didn't try to get him to attend the college at all.  in fact - she told him the opposite.  that his photography was wonderful and that she thought he would 'make it.'  she even told him he was extreemly sexy (bad idea considering their age difference) by the way she included him in her life on vacation.  she tried not to show appreciation for him - but being the close proximity - they 'got it on.'  this part of the movie i sided with the mother - but, could understand the attraction for the child since the parents didn't understand him.

i don't think one should push a 10 year old like maybe an 8 year old.  there's a limited window of opportunity before one knows what one likes and doesn't like.  i was tempted to push piano on my daughter - but she loves art instead.  she is becoming quite gifted in drawing and painting.  i'd sort of like her to use her voice, though, because she can really sing, too. 

maybe find out what the boy enjoys doing?

[quasimodo]

I currently don't follow Bernhard method, but if and when mine fails - I think I should give it a fair try. Ya never know, they could be playing Rahmaninov in 2-3 months. Bernhard surely sounds convincing.

I must admit that if my good-looking female teacher let me play with her bum for each finished piece, my repertoire would grow drastically  .

Edit: Unfortunately I don't have a good looking female teacher, but a very handsome male one, that is myself  .

[cjp_piano]

Unless of course, you do not really want to teach him, and would rather use his dislike of music as an excuse.

In that case:

Lesson 1 - Hanon,
Lesson 2 - Hanon.
Lesson 3 - Hanon.

 

BW
B

Ha, ha, I love it.   Actually the post about going through Alfred 1A is just as bad, no offense to you who worship Alfred, but I hate it   

I actually am in a similar situation:  the student is a 10 year old boy, his mom is making him take 3 lessons, and that's it. 

Definitely do NOT teach him C scale.  You think he will be excited about piano and love music because he can play a C scale?

I agree with the "exploring the piano" approach.   My student was totally fascinated by the sustain pedal.  His eyes got big as he played random notes while he held down the pedal.  I've never seen such concentration from a 10 year old boy as he just listened and waited for the sound to fade off into silence.  Who knew?!  We also did the black key improvisation thing which was a blast.  The trick is to be able to play fun accompaniments in Gb major or Eb minor (or any key that uses all 5 black keys, really) in several different styles (rock, swing, latin, ballad, oriental-sounding, etc.)

I also agree with the statement that you can't really MAKE him like music or piano.  But if you're excited about it and have fun, maybe it will rub off.

Good Luck!

[bernhard]

&search=piano%20borge
(Borge plays Liszt HR 2 with his bum)
 

BW
B.

[ingagroznaya]

The trick is to be able to play fun accompaniments in Gb major or Eb minor (or any key that uses all 5 black keys, really) in several different styles (rock, swing, latin, ballad, oriental-sounding, etc.)

The trick?
Same idea used by Alfred's 1A book. Please, independent genius, my bum. A student goes home with clear homework and about 7 little songs to practice, counting out loud. Some songs do sound recognizable - huge ego boost.
What did your student get out of  such "improvisation"? How to have fun?
No offence, but my students do not get excited by hitting random keys. I do not worship Alfred method. I also am not arrogant enough to hate it. It works.

[ingagroznaya]

&search=piano%20borge
(Borge plays Liszt HR 2 with his bum)
 

BW
B.

I do not find Borge funny .
.
I guess it works for hundreds other flies.

[pianistimo]

you have to have a drink first like he does.  the first time i saw him - i was going to purposely not laugh when he started out with the usual 'seat belt' joke when he sat down at the piano.  there was something about seeing him live - that i could not contain myself after a while.  he was just too sporadically casual.  the repetition and elongation of a joke stops me, sometimes, but i kinda liked the beginning of that opera singer video, too, because a lot of his jokes are true to life problems for musicians.  you know - when to start together - etc.  for accomplished pianists and accompanists - things are not so confusing - but the reality is that if you recorded most amateur performances, you'd have a whole repertoire of jokes for that guy.

have you ever seen a performer just stop in their tracks over one wrong note.  they just stop.  they can't go on.  they look at the pianist like they caused the mistake.  the pianist starts playing in reverse so they can sort of get back into the groove - but by then, the performer looks extremely red so the pianists stops when they come back to the repeat sign three times.  it's like the one being accompanied should wave a white flag in front of the pianist and then they stop and start all over fromt he beginning or both leave the stage withoiut the last note being heard.  it's always thought that the pianist had some sort of evil plan to embarrass the performer.

[cjp_piano]

The trick?
Same idea used by Alfred's 1A book. Please, independent genius, my bum. A student goes home with clear homework and about 7 little songs to practice, counting out loud. Some songs do sound recognizable - huge ego boost.
What did your student get out of  such "improvisation"? How to have fun?
No offence, but my students do not get excited by hitting random keys. I do not worship Alfred method. I also am not arrogant enough to hate it. It works.

Yes, Alfred does use those kinds of accompaniments.  My point was that they can "hit random keys" and have fun, yes.  Is that so bad?  The whole point of the person who started this post was to figure out how to get a kid interested in piano and music.  They're not going to be excited about taking home an "assignment."  My suggestion was to have them "improvise" on black keys while you play an accompaniment.  This is just the very first thing, to hopefully get them interested.  I wasn't saying that they should never learn to count or read music.  This is to get them interested so that they will WANT to take home an assignment and actually practice.

As far as the Alfred method, I apologize.  I was really just trying to be funny.  I don't really hate it, and I realize that it works for some teachers . . . actually MANY teachers.   I just personally do not like the approach, organization, introduction of new material, word choices, and other things.  It's fine if you use it and it works.  And I wasn't saying that YOU worship it, but some people do, they think it's the only way to learn piano, which I'm sure you disagree with. 

[ingagroznaya]

 I just personally do not like the approach, organization, introduction of new material, word choices, and other things. 

 You? You don't like any of it?
Book is written with a student in mind, not a teacher. I hope you do not need a book.

[penguinlover]

Is Victor Borge still alive?  I heard him a very long time ago, and he was old then. I haven't heard anything about him in a long time, just wondered.

[chocolatedog]

Borge is a genius!!!!!!!

(Alfred is not.......  )

[cjp_piano]

You? You don't like any of it?
Book is written with a student in mind, not a teacher. I hope you do not need a book.

Do I even need to respond to this?  I feel like I'm in junior high again   

Obviously it was written for the student.  I don't like it because it doesn't work for the student, but that's just my opinion.  You're free to use it and like it.  Don't get all bent out of shape because one person said they don't like the Alfred method, sheesh!