Fazioli

[arbisley]

Has anyone here heard one before? I don't know how well-known they are, but I had no idea until I read a book about them. They are supposed to be the BEST, but what do you think?

[pianistimo]

i think they sound really good on video clips but would also like to hear one in person.  how does one do that (collegeville, pa)?

[faulty_damper]

Like all pianos with felt hammers, they require proper voicing.  Even a new Fazioli needs to be voiced or it can sound terrible.  A well-voiced Fazioli sounds rich, warm, and even.  This was a F278 model I played on.  The F308 I played required a voice-job.  It was tinny, uneven, and harsh.  I am sure that it didn't sound that way when it was used on stage by concert pianists who prefered this particular instrument to the Steinway's.

Are they the best?  In terms of sound, I prefer the F278 I played to some New York and Hamburg Steinways (because the tone of Steinways vary greatly so it is difficult to say I actually prefer Fazioli's to all Steinway's.)  The tone of the F278 is more "full-bodied" and closer to the Hamburg Steinway.

As for the response, I didn't like how sluggish it felt compared to Kawaii's "black-jack" action modelled pianos.  These actions were the fastest I have ever played on - it didn't miss a note on repeated notes while the Fazioli F308 missed a couple (but this can be explained because it was somewhat humid in the room. )

This question is too subjective to get any consensus and variances of pianos are too much to quantify.

[pianistimo]

interesting about kawaii's 'black-jack' action.  guess that one should never complain - even if a piano is a lot cheaper.  i have really loved my kawaii.  maybe the cost of repairs is cheaper on a kawaii, too.

do parts come at high prices for these more expensive pianos (of course they do ).  and, servicing?  or is servicing pretty much a standard thing?

*wonders if having an expensive piano just looks like you have money to burn - and therefore higher tuning fees?

[arbisley]

I think it also depends WHAT you want to play.
I'm not sure an extremely even touch and perfect sound is the best thing for all pieces of music, and other makes certainly fare well in particular styles of music

[Waldszenen]

Played one. Consider it the Ferrari of pianos.

[pianowolfi]

Like all pianos with felt hammers, they require proper voicing. 

Are there pianos whose hammers are not made of felt?

[gfiore]

The Fazioli is expensive, as all things of Italian manufacture typically are, but it is very much worth it .
 THe cost of parts(action,etc) is no different than any other piano make. The difference in cost between a great tech, and a run of the mill tech can make a difference. Again, you get what you pay for. You would'nt want the Ford dealerships mechanic working on your Mercedes would you?
 All piano hammers are made of wool felt pressed around a wood moulding.
 Blackjack was Kawai's name for just the graphite impregnated ABS jack when they were still using wooden action parts. The new Kawai ABS carbon fiber action is now called "The Millenium lll".

[faulty_damper]

I should make a correction.  I didn't play the "black jack" but the Millenium III action.  This was the fastest action I have ever played.  Repeated note response was amazing even considering how humid the weather was which affected all other wooden actions.

I was biased in my opinion of the different pianos but made no bias as to my assessment.  Fazioli's response was slow and the touch very different.  I wasn't impressed with the near $200,000 price tag and especially considering it, quite disappointed in the end when a piano a quarter the price outperformed it in nearly all aspects.

[supertonic]

I have tried the Fazioli, Steinway, Borsie etc. On word, if cost is not a restraint, I will defnitely go for the Fazioli. You have to play one first  to understand why.

[numerian]

Mine is an F228 that has what I would consider typical Fazioli characteristics:

1. The tone is exceptionally clear across the whole keyboard, but this proves especially interesting in the upper two octaves where you get a richness and sense of overtone that is lacking in many other pianos.

2.  The sustain is unusually lengthy and in fact takes some getting used to.  You have to learn to use the damper pedal judiciously or you will get muddled sounds.  Many pianists take a half hour or more to get familiar with this and adjust their pedaling, and sometimes the Fazioli is unfairly blamed for those who can never make the adjustment.

3.  The instrument requires careful and sensitive voicing but the results should be spectacular; each hammer has the capability of producing three or more tones depending on the pressure used.  Once you adjust to this, your ability to add color to your playing is greatly expanded.  The Abel hammers are always properly voiced when they come out of the factory (Paolo Fazioli sees to this personally), but in some environments the instrument brightens up in the showroom, and the piano has gotten the reputation for being too bright or strident in its tone.  This is entirely because the voicing is not maintained properly, since with reasonable care the hammers are capable of generating expressive sounds.

4.  The aliquots do not need to be adjusted too often but can be when necessary if you are hearing discordant partials.  This can be an advantage over other instruments where you simply must live with these problematic partials.

5.  The action from the factory is very supple and should permit complete technical performance for any decent pianist.  There have been a number of improvements in the Fazioli action over the years and I would consider it among the industry's best, though Kawai, Steingraeber and other manufacturers are also making great strides in this area.  Along with the tonal capabilities of properly-voiced hammers on the instrument, the flexibility of the action allows for a very natural keyboard.  In other words, as many have said who play it, there is very little between you and the music - you don't have to worry about the instrument when performing, and you can desire some effect in your mind and discover the instrument will deliver it.

6.  Volume production is substantial, and as a consequence an F228 or even smaller Fazioli can be suitable on a small stage for solo or chamber music.  The downside of this is that you have to be careful when buying one for your home that the music room is large enough to accommodate the volume.

7.  Because of all of these sensitivities, the instrument requires somewhat more care and maintenance than other pianos such as a Yamaha, which has a more standardized, mass-produced quality that assures consistency and stability across the brand.  But particularly if you keep humidity and temperature relatively stable, the Fazioli will have highly stable tuning (maybe once a year for thorough tuning), and regulation and voicing are mostly touch up matters.

8.  Due to these sensitivities, the instrument is ideal for amateurs and many purchasers are amateurs of modest financial means who are willing to sacrifice in order to obtain the improved performance capabilities that a Fazioli allows.   A select number of concert artists prefer the Fazioli, but of course the concert world is dominated by Steinway, and there are consequences for Steinway artists who stray from the fold.  You won't therefore see many Faziolis on the concert stage, also in part because there haven't been that many concert grands coming out of Italy, since only about 100 pianos a year are produced.  However, most large cities now have showrooms with Faziolis, making it possible for amateurs to try them out.

9.  Finally, I have played a concert grand with the fourth pedal, which is a typical half-blow that brings the hammers closer to the strings.  The effect is a hushed sound, that becomes even more ethereal if you add the una corda.  In fact, it is impossible to play above mezzo forte when using the fourth pedal.  Though I don't have this on my own instrument, it is certainly a useful addition for tonal and coloration purposes, and with the right pianist could provide some unique performances/ recordings.  I should note that, because of the very long sustain of this piano, I find that a light touch of the sostenuto pedal can be very effective rather than using the full damper pedal.  Therefore I am playing more than ever with the sostenuto as a delicate version of the damper where a long tone can be emphasized (Rachmaninoff has many such circumstances in his music).

 

[bella musica]

Wow, numerian!  Now I want a Fazioli!

Incidentally, don't they make some concert grands up to around 10 feet long?

[jre58591]

Wow, numerian!  Now I want a Fazioli!

Incidentally, don't they make some concert grands up to around 10 feet long?

yup, i play one every time i play at my school. wonderful instrument, but the action is a bit easy or me and the black keys are too narrow. the sound is awesome though.

[numerian]

The F308 comes to around 10' 2" I think.  I don't know how many have been made, but I think in concert halls you usually come across the F278, which is equivalent to a Steinway D.  I believe most of these models come automatically with the fourth pedal, but Fazioli has designed this so that the fourth pedal comes with an entirely separate lyre.  You can remove this and install a standard three pedal lyre that you also get from the factory.  Concert artists who aren't absolutely comfortable with a fourth pedal can therefore revert back to the normal pedal configuration.  If you ask, Fazioli will provide a fourth pedal on any of their models, and also convert an existing instrument to a fourth pedal as well (though this is pretty expensive). 

Wayne Stuart has also incorporated the same fourth pedal mechanism into his instruments.

What I would like to see with these pedals is a click and lock mechanism that allows the fourth pedal to be fixed for as long as the performer wishes.  This would allow you to play softly at night if you didn't want to disturb the whole household.     

[pianistimo]

that's a very nice feature (among the others).

narrow keys i would like, i think, but are they non-standard or just put closer together?

[hiline]

that's a very nice feature (among the others).

narrow keys i would like, i think, but are they non-standard or just put closer together?

 

I have the same question. That little surprise really amazed me.

[numerian]

Key length and width seem standard to me on all the Faziolis I have played.  I don't know whether they have looked into narrower keys, but I would doubt it, and I suspect no other manufacturer has as well.  All the other relationships in the key mechanism would probably have to change, like hammer size.  Besides, humans are getting taller and fatter, so maybe the manufacturers should be looking at wider keys.

[pianistimo]

never thought of it affecting all the other factors - unless fazioli put them together that way from the start.  it's a really nice sounding piano from the clips someone put up awhile back.

[ted]

One of the members of Pianoworld bought one and had a new piano party here a few months ago, to which I was kindly invited. It's certainly a beautiful piano but I too found its action very light, at least compared to that of my Weinbach. It took me quite a while to get used to it. It put out a tremendous volume of sound. When somebody else played I found it too overpowering to sit on the side with the lid open and had to move to the opposite corner of the room to listen comfortably. I couldn't imagine playing it in a small room with the lid open for very long, put it that way.   

[amethyst]

I've heard one and it was the best piano I've ever heard.Unfortunately I haven't managed to play one,but if it's as superb when you play it as it is when you listen to it,then I know where all the money I'm gonna earn during the next 20 years are going!

[pianistimo]

can i come over when you buy it? 

[dnephi]

Do you live near Chicago?

https://pianofortechicago.com/

I'm visiting that later, when I go to a Chicago Symphony Orchestra concert.  When I get old I plan to buy the F308.     I can just imagine the power and tone colors available in this and specific places to apply it in repertoire.