2 part inventions, help!

[gonzalo]

Hi,

I started working on the 2 part invention in D minor. I sat today with a pen, paper and the score to do an analysis of the invention. Thing is I didn't know how to proceed to do the analysis . I knew the first 2 bars contain the motif , but there are a lot of other things which could be a motif. So , what makes something a motif? What are the other modifications of motif ( inversion , retrograde) that can be found in the 15 part inventions?

Secondly, is there like a guide to analyse an invention ? Like a questionaire I can answer which applies to any invention? I would like to have one since it will organise my analysis.

Thirdly, what's a harmonic reduction of a piece? Do I need a score to do that?

Fourthly, is there something I should pay attention while analysing this invention?


Take care,
Gonzalo

[pianistimo]

bernhard answered this question really well awhile back.  scan through similar questions maybe - and you'll find it.  or just ask him about this particular one. 

i'll take a look at my old notes.  i see here that the term 'invention' was coined by bach.  he took it from the idea of a 'canon.'  a canon is the most basic of the contrapuntal forms.   this is a structure  defined by the relationship of its component levels of texture termed 'voices.'  a two-voice canon involves two levels of texture.  in a canon all voices are derived from the first voice to enter, which is termed the 'dux' or leader.  other voices are the same as the dux, but they begin later and have overlapping entrances with it.  this technique is called 'imitation.'  the imitating voice or voices in the canon are called the 'comes' (the follower).  the distance between the entry of the dux and the entry of the comes is the 'time interval' of the canon and it is expressed in terms of a rhythmic quantity.  the comes does not have to enter on the same pitch as the dux.  if another pitch is used the interval between the first note of the dux and the first note of the comes is called the 'pitch interval' of the canon.  (fifth, third)

bach refers to three-voice canons as 'sinfonias.'

[pianistimo]

here's a fairly extensive article.  not sure if they go over the specific two-part invention that you mentioned.

https://jan.ucc.nau.edu/~tas3/mus303/week3.html

also about canons:

https://jan.ucc.nau.edu/~tas3/canonanatomy.html#definition

[pianistimo]

i found something else about the inventions and sinfonia here:

www.music.qub.ac.uk/tomita/essay/inventions.html

it's interesting to me that the term 'invention' was a sort of play on words that refers also to rhetoric.  you have this discourse of an idea.  a statement.  then breaking it down and building it up.  i am very much agreed about the first two sites as well - because it is more of a process than form.  you have a complete statement that is afterwards broken down into smaller pieces and changed around.  i would make a continuous colored pencil marking (say red) of the ENTIRE voice #1 or dux and a similar one for the ENTIRE voice #2 (say green) of the comes.  (maybe end marks around the first statement or dux in pencil, too).

then, you can pencil in beneath the dux the various smaller components which are later used as 'a' 'a1' etc. or 'b' b1' 

also, you can show how these are inverted or not by using i=inversion r=retrograde  etc.  so you'd have ai (for a motif and i for inversion).  some teachers don't care if you make up your own 'code' as long as you can explain it.

oh.  and when you are looking at some of the voicing - here and there it gets complicated with crossovers and stuff.  just ask bernhard or if i'm on line orm1469(many of these people have written threads - but i know you are asking about a specific one).

[gonzalo]

i found something else about the inventions and sinfonia here:

www.music.qub.ac.uk/tomita/essay/inventions.html

THANKS Pianistimo for the links and your answer 

Take care,
Gonzalo

[pianistimo]

you are most welcome.

[leucippus]

For whatever it's worth there's a nice BBC radio commentary on the Bach Inventions that you might enjoy.  It's in their archives so you can listen to it anytime.

BBC Archives - Bach Inventions

You'll have to scroll down and click on Bach Inventions.  It's enjoyable commentary if nothing else. 

[steve jones]

I must admit, music like this seems very complex to me. I find more homophonic styles to be much more fathomable.

How Bach was able to write these kinds of pieces is beyond me. Iv read many articles and a couple of books on the subject, and it is still no clearer! Canons just seem like immense brains strain to me.

SJ

[solitudewithin]

I agree with SJ  Another thing is that i love Bach, i mean at first it didnt make much sense to me but after i listened to some recordings like Glenn Gould and others i fell in love with the inventions mostly! I mean its unbeleivable how he balanced techique and reall music together. Every time i play Bach i am refresh! Spiritualy that is ! I just love it 

[steve jones]

Oh, its geat music no doubt. I think some of his Concerti are fantastic!

I just wish I could get my head around this style better. I mean, Chopin seems to make sense to me... even with the heavy chromaticism and occassional weirdness. I can look at a piece of his music and usually find my bearings.

But with Bach, and especially his Inventions and Fugues, I just dont get it. I dont understand how this polyphonic type music can imply functional relationships, especially when in two parts. Yet the music always gives me a strong sense of tonal bearing.

No, it is beyond me. I can perform the basic analysis and marvel over how creatively the subjects are manipulated. But I can never under the skin of this music; figure out how I would begin to write such a piece myself.

Perhaps I am missing the point...

SJ