Pianos in homes

[liszmaninopin]

Is it possible to build a room in a private home which can enhance the sound of a full-size concert grand, instead of detract from it?  I have always dreamed of having a full grand in my very own home to practice on, instead of some cheap upright.  Someday, I suppose...

[Tinkerbell]

If you build an absolutely massive room then I guess so!  .....Its never going to be the same there's just something different about it.  But you could probably get close to the effect, large room, certain furniture, certain material walls etc.  There will be a way.  

Yes an upright is good but I want a grand too!  

[Plaz]

Sure, you can build a room for a 9' grand, but it's still not going to sound like it's in a concert hall unless you actually build a concert hall.  Most houses won't accomodate concert hall additions very well.

You'll want a very large room (20'x30'x10' minimum) with no columns or other obstructions in the middle.  Put the piano near one end, not too close to either corner.  I'd recommend hardwood floors; you can put down some nice rugs to fine tune the sound to your taste (to absorb unwanted echos).  Roman shades or curtains on any windows will also help to dampen echos without deadening the room too much.  It's easier to add sound absorbing surfaces to a room (furniture, rugs or carpet, curtains, etc) than reflecting ones.  Keep furniture around the edges of the room instead of in the center.  Smaller rooms may need acoustic tiles on the ceiling.

Placing the piano on a slightly elevated surface may be a nice visual effect, but it will probably not help the acoustics unless you have a very high ceiling.  Keep acoustically reflective vertical surfaces away from the area immediately surrounding the piano.  Voicing the piano will also have a significant effect on the end result.

I personally think it's much more practical to build a room for a 7' piano than a 9'.  I've seen a few model Ds and one Bosie Imperial in various private residences, and they were always too much piano for the setting that they were in, IMHO.

[dinosaurtales]

Uh oh.  This is starting to sound like another one of those *piano fantasy* topics!  Frankly, the 7 footer is too much for this house, but I don't care.  Plaz has good points.  It's easier (and more fun) to build a live room (ours has hardwood floors and granite and glass everywhere) and *play* with drapes and rugs where you want them, than build a dead room and try to liven it up.  

it kills me to think of folks like Bill Gates, who is loaded, and probably has tens of thousands of dollars in high tech electronic crap in his house, but probably doesn't have a decent piano.  The dummy!

[Axtremus]

... it kills me to think of folks like Bill Gates, who is loaded, and probably has tens of thousands of dollars in high tech electronic crap in his house, but probably doesn't have a decent piano.  The dummy!

Well, there is always Steve Jobs who put a grand piano in the lobby of Apple's corporate headquater in Cupertino, California. Don't know if he personally owns a piano though. I have seen a list of "Presidential pianos" owned by US Presidents. Any one know if there is a list of pianos owned by non-pianist celebrities?

[chopiabin]

I don't mean to sound materialistic, but I want to be really wealthy without any effort so I can have a house with a room especially for piano. No real furniture, just clean lines and my piano. That way I could practice whenever I wanted for however long I wanted and I would never have to deal with anyone I didn't want to.

[dinosaurtales]

Well, there is always Steve Jobs who put a grand piano in the lobby of Apple's corporate headquater in Cupertino, California. Don't know if he personally owns a piano though. I have seen a list of "Presidential pianos" owned by US Presidents. Any one know if there is a list of pianos owned by non-pianist celebrities?

What I want to know is if anybody can actually play the things.  What a waste of a beautiful instrument if they don't!

[xenon]

I feel your agony, Dino.  It also hurts me to see nice pianos being played by complete novices.  Such as, some pop singer who bangs away untalentedly at a 9' Steinway.  Or the rock star who smashes grand pianos just for the enjoyment of the crowd.  They deserve to be shot.

[Plaz]

I feel your agony, Dino.  It also hurts me to see nice pianos being played by complete novices.  Such as, some pop singer who bangs away untalentedly at a 9' Steinway.  Or the rock star who smashes grand pianos just for the enjoyment of the crowd.  They deserve to be shot.

This from the same xenon who just posted that animals are God's creation and thus must be respected?  I guess rock stars are below animals on your hierarchy of creatures created by God.

I've been to loads of rock concerts and have never seen a grand piano smashed.  I won't say that it never happens, but most musicians aren't going to be able to afford to smash a piano for every concert.  Unlike Liszt, who was capable of ruining several pianos in one performance.  I'm glad you weren't around to shoot him...

At any rate, if a rich guy wants to buy a nice piano and let it rot in his mansion without being played, who cares?  It's not like you or I are missing out on anything when he does this.  Either you can afford to buy a nice piano to have and play or you can't.  He's doing his part to make the piano makers profitable (probably paying full price!) so they'll still be in business to sell you a piano when you want one.

[deantran]

I had A bossie 214 (7'), not too much for home. If you don't play loud, it won't be loud. The same piano fills a sale floor by a player with heavy hand.

[chickering9]

... If you don't play loud, it won't be loud...

Exactly.

I have a concert grand in an ordinary room about 14 X 20, with a Persian rug, heavy drapes and several large oil-on-canvas paintings mounted so that they are average 2-inch depth from the wall.  I find the sound simply enveloping--not overpowering (though that is possible, but even with ears that can hear the clock ticking two rooms away right now, I don't find the closing crescendo of Lecuona's "Malaguena" anything more than simply exciting in that room).  Every nuance of sound is right there in my ears like listening to a good hi-fi with headphones.

In the next room, I have a high quality stereo system that cost more than most houses when I bought it 20 years ago, with all fiber optics digital component connections and four 1000-watt amps running a pair of 8-foot electrostatic speakers and a pair of subwoofers.  I rarely use it.  (I'm too busy playing to want to listen.)  But yesterday, I was listening to a performance of "Rhapsody in Blue" that I've enjoyed over the years.  What struck me was that my concept of what constitutes a good piano sound has changed.  The system is as close to "live" as anything I've ever heard and I've (only once) had a neighbor from a block away come over to say, "I just love your music, but could you please turn it down!".  (The more common response is "F*****g awesome" or "wow!".)  Anyway, yesterday while I was listening to the Gershwin, I realized that while the orchestra sounded great, I no longer cared for the sound of the piano in that performance.  It sounded positively thin and feeble amid that wonderfully textured and round orchestra in that large recording studio.  All the subtlety and texture of the piano itself seemed lost in that setting.

My conclusion after listening to that familiar recording is that I have become so accustomed to listening to the fullness and richness of texture of even the smallest, quietest tones from my concert grand that a large grand in a huge hall no longer appeals at all.  A large piano in a large room has to be voiced up so much to be heard over a large orchestra that the sound becomes positively brittle.  But a large instrument voiced for a smaller room can have subtleties that you can't even imagine from playing a smaller piano in an ordinary room.  Don't knock a big piano in an ordinary room until you've played a good one, well-regulated--and learned to play pppp levels well.  A big piano has the power to amplify all the subtleties and a refined touch lets you explore an infinite tonal palette that you might otherwise never even know existed, either with a large piano in a large room or a small piano in an ordinary room.

I haven't been in many recording studios, but I'd bet a lot of solo recording work gets done on large pianos in rooms comparable in size to mine.

[sirpazhan]

of course,, you need to structure the room so that the sound waves are fully projected.. think of a recording studio,, they're not very large,,, however the placement of the piano, the angle of walls,, etc.. makes it work well... its all about research.

[tsarchitect]

As an architect who's designing a new home for a client with a baby grand, I have advised him to place it in a room with a wood floor as opposed to one with a concrete floor, as I have.  (I had no choice in the matter -- until I build a new addition or new residence!)  There certainly is a difference -- acoustically as well as sensually.  I have experienced both -- most noticeable, the wood floor transmits the vibration of the strings through your body while the concrete floor does not. I noticed this by playing at friends' houses with wood floors -- a remarkable difference.

I hope this doesn't sound elementary -- just my "two-cents' worth" since the subject came up!

tsarchitect

[phykell]

My poor 9 footer lives in a tiny 12' by 14'' room, though occasionally the full width doors get opened and it does make it sound better. I also tend to have the lid fully closed but if the doors are opened, the lid is also opened fully. Right now, the piano is mostly covered by a very heavy cover as there's some work going on in the house with the problem of dust.

Chickering, I think I can offer some opinion on your experience. My own hi-fi system is a Meridian system, and has the very best sounding reproduction of piano I've heard. One thing I've noticed over the last couple of years is that I'm not particularly impressed with CDs anymore. Having been to a few recitals and played my own piano, I'm now of the opinion that CDs or perhaps all recordings, just cannot reproduce what a piano sounds like live. The same can be said for all music though, as invariably, music is better performed live. I also think it's something to do with getting better at playing. As you get better, you become more critical (as well as more appreciative) to the point where you find individual performances more to your taste than they were before. I have a great example: two days ago my teacher asked me if I'd considered playing the 2nd movement of a Mozart sonata. I'd heard it before of course, but never particularly liked it. She played it for me and I thought it was fantastic, magical sounding, etc. Later that day I found a recording of it and played it over the stereo for my wife. Imagine my surprise when after building it up to some wonderful sounding music, out of the speakers came this unimpressive piece. The two were simply not comparable, and it wasn't because my teacher played it particuarly well - she had to sight-read it and couldn't remember when she last played it, though it was probably years ago. I had to tell my wife thqat it would sound much better once I learned how to play it!

[chickering9]

... I've noticed over the last couple of years is that I'm not particularly impressed with CDs anymore. Having been to a few recitals and played my own piano, I'm now of the opinion that CDs or perhaps all recordings, just cannot reproduce what a piano sounds like live...

I'm beginning to think you're right about recordings in general. I've tried a variety of methods of recording, both analog and digital, and while a lot of people might think they sound "nice", I've been entirely displeased with their fidelity to the original live sound.  It seems almost impossible to get a recording that is truly "flat" through all frequencies.  I can hear the slope of the distortion in every recording.  It's always 6 of one, or a half dozen of the other.

OT--I keep forgetting to comment about your D's legs.  I like their proportions.  My Chickering's are perhaps even a little thicker.  I prefer the stoutness of those legs to the too-dainty variety on most instruments.  It was the legs that attracted me to my particular piano in the first place.  I've been wondering, where did you find your bench with similarly proportioned legs?  I want to replace mine with a bench with similar proportions and even the same leg shape, even if I have to have it custom made.

[phykell]

OT--I keep forgetting to comment about your D's legs.  I like their proportions.  My Chickering's are perhaps even a little thicker.  I prefer the stoutness of those legs to the too-dainty variety on most instruments.  It was the legs that attracted me to my particular piano in the first place.  I've been wondering, where did you find your bench with similarly proportioned legs?  I want to replace mine with a bench with similar proportions and even the same leg shape, even if I have to have it custom made.

The bench is the one that came with it and I wouldn't be surprised if it was the original one that came with the piano when new (1920) as it was in a terrible state before it was repaired and recovered and the height adjustment mechanism looks ancient (it had to have some "creative" repairs done).  I see your problem though. Having looked at benches some time ago when I thought mine was beyond repair, they all seem to have remarkably thin legs, nothing like the legs on my bench, and of course, if your piano has very "stout" legs, you really need a bench that suits it. I guess suggestions might be to have one made to suit, have an existing one customised, or to keep a look out for a second-hand one on EBay perhaps?