Kawai KG-6

[cz4p32]

I'm looking into upgrading from my current old baby grand, to a late 70's mint condition KG-6, 7'4".  Anyone have one, or have any opinions?

[iumonito]

Very nice piano.  Very rebuildable too.

[faustsaccomplice]

I'd advise against it.  In my experience the older Japanese pianos are just not up to par.  Especially with a company like Kawai, which really wasn't even making good pianos at that point. 

Then again I think that they still don't make a good piano. 

Take my advice with a grain of salt, I suppose.

[iumonito]

I'd advise against it.  In my experience the older Japanese pianos are just not up to par.  Especially with a company like Kawai, which really wasn't even making good pianos at that point. 

Then again I think that they still don't make a good piano. 

Take my advice with a grain of salt, I suppose.

?
Have you played one of these old big Kawais?  KG-5 and KG-6 have very nice scales, solid maple rims and can be made to sound very very well with a nice set of hammers if the originals are too worn out to be voiced.

If you have played them and you just don't like them, I respect your opinion, to which you of course are entitled.  I find Kawai to be the best Japanese piano and one of my favorite 5 among all brands.

Just my opinion.

[cz4p32]

Obviously everyone has their opinion.  I appreciate the one's i've heard.  I have yet to go play the piano, I am hoping to in the next week.  Pianos among the same manufacturer can differ greatly.  I've played Steinways i've hated, and Kohler & Campbell's that i've liked, so I will have to see.

[tosca1]

Dear Member,
Some words of encouragement for your interest in that Kawai grand piano.
If you like the sound and response of the 7ft Kawai grand piano which is in excellent condition, then buy it.  Recently, beautiful and exciting pianos have been produced by Kawai. John Chen, a young New Zealander, who won the Sydney International Piano Competition last year, chose a Kawai concert grand for his final performance. I note too that Earl Wild, that fabulous American pianist, has espoused the Kawai cause. Kawai has been innovative in its technology with the development of the New Millenium Action and the new Shigeru Kawai range of hand made pianos.
Kind regards,

Robert.

[quantum]

I've played some of the old KG series, and they are great pianos.  I feel that they don't have the depth of tone compared to the new RX's (which also have further ability with nuance) but they beat out the RX series when it comes to projection and colour. 

[wishful thinker]

Has anyone a view on the KG 1-C ?

[cz4p32]

Well after playing the KG6 I decided to buy it.  It was an incredible deal!  The touch was excellent, far different than the smaller kawai's I played.  Lighter, similiar to a Yamaha C7, but I liked the tone of the Kawai better.   It will be delivered in a few weeks.

[gfiore]

Light you should give you the hint that the hammers have been filed many times throughout the pianos life, and need to be replaced. Kawais of that time period were never light. Did you have a tech inspect the piano before purchase? I would.

[cz4p32]

When I said light, I wasn't referring to the tone, but rather the strength needed to press the keys.  Yes the piano has been fully checked out.  No problems with it.

[gfiore]

 I was'nt referring to tone either. I was pointing out that the touchweight was probably light due to lightening of the hammers after many filings over the years. Those actions were usually well above 60 grams downweight in the bass, and over 50 throughout the tenor and treble when new. I hope it does'nt have overfiled  original hammers. New hammers would be a wise choice if they are.

[ihatepop]

I'm looking into upgrading from my current old baby grand, to a late 70's mint condition KG-6, 7'4".  Anyone have one, or have any opinions?

Kawai?

My school has a Kawai in it and theres almost no sound coming out of it....

ihatepop

[quantum]

Kawai?

My school has a Kawai in it and theres almost no sound coming out of it....

ihatepop

Yes I've seen those too.  Maybe it wasn't prepped well in the first place or hasn't been serviced in years.  Kawai's i've played have been durable when exposed to physical abuse - I speak from personal experience  - I can play with good vigour!

[cz4p32]

It arrived!  And it is incredible!!!

[iumonito]

Congrats.  It looks like fun.  Post a recording soon and link it here!

Do you mind if I ask publicly, how much did you pay?  Always good to keep a finger on the reality pulse.

[cz4p32]

it was 15,000 US.  Because i bought it out of state I paid no tax.  It was a really really good deal.

[arensky]

I'm looking into upgrading from my current old baby grand, to a late 70's mint condition KG-6, 7'4".  Anyone have one, or have any opinions?

bump 

I am considering making the same switch as cz4p32. Does anyone have anything to add to this thread? I currently own a 1900 Steinway A, rebuilt in 1981. Comments desired. 

[iumonito]

Are you swapping pianos or getting a second?  If you are swapping pianos you should end up with a wad of cash in your hand, as I would expect you Steinway to be much more valuable than the Kawai.

[arensky]

Are you swapping pianos or getting a second?

Not sure yet.

 

If you are swapping pianos you should end up with a wad of cash in your hand, as I would expect you Steinway to be much more valuable than the Kawai.

Not exactly swapping, geographical distance and time constraints don't allow for that. But the Steinway is worth at least two KG6's. I can sell the Steinway and have a wad of cash in hand as you say. Most of the people I have consulted on this matter think I am insane to consider replacing the vintage Steinway with a Kawai of any model. BUT...

The Steinway has developed a terminal twang in the high treble and it's driving me nuts. Three different technicians have been unable to remedy the problem. I have listened to recordings of old (then new) Steinways played by Hoffman, Rachmaninov, Friedman et al and can hear the twang in their recordings as well, although it is not as offensive as the sonority of my piano. Below middle C the Steinway is incredible but as one moves up the keyboard the twang becomes more pronounced. And so unless I wish to restrict myself to playing ragtime and country music, the tone of my piano is not ideal. It's old, and sounds that way. Time for a change, I think. I recently played a 7' Mason and Hamlin from the same period that had the same problem. Tragic.

To replace this old Steinway with a new one is not financially practical and besides I don't care for the newer Steinways. I've always liked Kawai pianos ( I agree with you they are the best Japanese piano by far) so when I learned this piano was available I was intrigued. And the price is certainly right. 

And I've always wanted a 7 foot piano.

A colleague has a 70's or 60's KG6 in bad condition (cracked board, ineptly repaired, not regulated in years and generally run down) and yesterday I played it for about half an hour. If this is what a bad KG6 is like, I can't wait until next week when I travel to the piano store where the piano in question is. My colleague's clunker had a depth of tone and projection that was extraordinary. I am really hoping this KG6 and I hit it off. 

So what is a mahogany Steinway A from 1900 with a solid 30 year old soundboard, a few scratches and a twangy treble worth? There must be a church in Texas or Oklahoma that wants this piano for it's good looks and old time sound! 


[/img]

Or, it could become piano 2....

[iumonito]

Interesting.

I think your ear has become atuned to the clash of upper partials typical of the Steinway scales.  This timber becomes more pronounced as the hammers become harder, so this Steinway of yours will become less and less tolerable to you the more you play it.  I would not call it a twang and see no need for you to call attention to it.  I bet most people who would be interested in your piano would not consider that timber to be a problem.  It gives the sound great projection and is how an Steinway is supposed to sound like.

And for you, at least until you gain a liking for that sound again, will grow to love German and Austrian pianos and dislike everything else.     Playing much Chopin these days?

I think you are very smart to sell the Steinway (you should be able to get between 35K and 45, I think, although not from me  )

Good luck with the Kawai.

[quantum]

I very much like the KG series.  It has this projection and singing quality that I have not yet found on any RX series piano.  Was considering a KG3 at one time.  One thing I noticed about the KG's I've played is that they do not have the sensitivity to touch that the newer Kawai models have.  You would certainly notice a difference between the sensitivity of your model A to a KG. 

I'd say keep the A, go for a second piano. 


Arensky, you play tabla?

[arensky]

Interesting.

I think your ear has become atuned to the clash of upper partials typical of the Steinway scales.  This timber becomes more pronounced as the hammers become harder, so this Steinway of yours will become less and less tolerable to you the more you play it.  I would not call it a twang and see no need for you to call attention to it.  I bet most people who would be interested in your piano would not consider that timber to be a problem.  It gives the sound great projection and is how an Steinway is supposed to sound like.

I just had the hammers filed and voiced and it made a significant difference but it still twangs (that's what I call it). Projection is great but my piano room is not large, so I guess I'm looking for more resonance.

And for you, at least until you gain a liking for that sound again, will grow to love German and Austrian pianos and dislike everything else.    

I don't expect to regain a liking for that sound. As far as Germanic pianos go, I love the Sauter and Hamburg Steinway above the others. Schimmels are good but they don't project well. The same goes for Estonia and August Forster. Bluthners seem harsh to me, and Bosendorfers have never appealed to me, with a few exceptions *ducks* although they are extraordinary pianos without a doubt. In December I had the good fortune to play a recital on a Fazioli (6'4' I think). Jaw droppingly beautiful. So good that the two flaws I could hear in the tone were magnified by the perfection of the notes around them. Too good, too good...

When I visit this shop I will finally play a Bechstein. Should be interesting.

Playing much Chopin these days?

No, Ginastera Debussy and Mussorgsky.

I think you are very smart to sell the Steinway (you should be able to get between 35K and 45

Yes, I could put that money to good use.

I think, although not from me  )

You know you want it!  You sneak off when no one's looking with glossy pics of Steinway L pianos! 

I know you do....

Good luck with the Kawai.

We shall see how we get along.

Hopefully this is not a cause for concern, I did notice a rather large duplex/aliquot area. At least his final remarks about appropriate modifications are encouraging.

https://www.ptg.org/pipermail/pianotech/1999-November/054050.html

[arensky]

I very much like the KG series.  It has this projection and singing quality that I have not yet found on any RX series piano.  Was considering a KG3 at one time.  One thing I noticed about the KG's I've played is that they do not have the sensitivity to touch that the newer Kawai models have.  You would certainly notice a difference between the sensitivity of your model A to a KG.

I think that Kawais have a different touch from Steinways; I've never found then to be "insensitive" . My Steinway has a weird action (done with the rebuild) that has never seemed "normal" to me, particularly after a decade of myself and my students (including several adept and powerful teenagers) putting it through the mill. A recent regulation has improved it but it's still odd. My recordings of Chopin Op.26 #1 and Op.41 #4 in the audition room were made on this piano, if you want to listen to it. I call it the Canadian Steinway  ; from the factory it went to the big music store in Toronto, and the owner prior to me bought it used there in 1947 and took it to Connecticutt, where my family purchased it in 1979 with three cracks in the board. I got it when I moved west about ten years ago.

I've always liked Kawai pianos but what finally sold me on them is the piano at my hotel gig ( 8 years and running). It's a KG2, about twenty years old. It is tuned about every 4-6 months but receives no other care. It sits near a hot open grill AND under an air conditioning vent and has fallen off it's dolly at least twice. I don't think this piano can be destroyed. Not only that but through all this abuse it sounds great. There's a 1977 Steinway L in the ballroom that has received better treatment ( it was never dropped) but sounds absolutely terrible. The ten year old L's at the university also sound terrible, after a comparatively short life and good care. The Kawais at the uni are neglected but have held up much better. Whatever anyone might say about Kawai pianos, they are tanks. You can't stop them. And they have that lovely sound. Cheap replacement parts, too.

I'd say keep the A, go for a second piano.

Don't know if I can do that; looks like it's one or the other. $$$ 

Arensky, you play tabla?

I play with and at the tabla; I go through phases with it. Haven't had 'em out lately. Probably this summer. I am getting my clarinet fixed after many years. Gotta play something else, if just for fun.

[arensky]

Well that was a great piano but not great enough. It was powerful for sure but the tone lacked the clarity of my Steinway; AND the treble was annoying, twangy and kind of dead. At least my twangy treble is alive. And most importantly, the soundboard isn't great, you can feel the separaton points between the different sections and it seems to be warping. To move this piano from the Pacific Ocean to the high desert would probably split the board in two (or three). This piano should stay in the climate it's known for most of it's life.

In the meantime, I'm going to be getting new hammers soon.