Newbie with a Q.

[klicker]

Hello! I just stumbled upon this board in my google search for piano teacher forums. Please forgive the intrusion.   

My name is Joy, I live in Kansas, USA, and I've been teaching for over a year now.  (I'll intro myself more thoroughly a little later...promise... )

All has been fine and good up till last week when I accepted a transfer student.  I'm having a hard time figuring out what 'level' of playing she is in, how much she knows, what to do with her, etc.

She was just finishing up the 2nd Suzuki piano book, yet she sight reads her new songs only one hand at a time, and is slow in reading the notes. I don't want to insult/discourage her by taking her 'back' (She's 14), but I really don't think she has a very good grasp of her notes.
When I pointed to the treble clef line of music (that she had just painstakenly played through) and asked on a scale of 1-10 how easily she recognized the notes, she said a '7-8', but it sounded and looked more like a 5 to me.
 
She can play by ear, which seems to assist her a lot in 'perfecting' the music. Instead of becoming more familiar with the written notes, she plays what she thinks she should hear.

Do any of you have any suggestions? thoughts?

thanx!

[luvslive]

She is a Suzuki student?  She should not be "reading" out of her book, those pieces are too complex to read but should be played by ear. 
You can show her where notes are on the piano and explain fingerings etc but don't plod through reading the notes.
Also, yes these pieces are generally learned hands seperately...many of the pieces are from the Baroque era and often you must know each hand individually before putting them together.
Since you are a traditional teacher have her read notes out of a primer level, maybe level 1 book and move her along quickly if something is too easy.  Use a method where the pieces aren't too familiar to her or she may start to rely on her too much.

[pianistimo]

agreed about keeping a method going - and gradually introducing sightreading with easier level.

also, you can introduce 'markers' - for instance the third space above and below (treble and bass clef) is C.  once they get this and all the notes in between (with flashcards and songs and writing them into a notebook) then you go to the next 'marker.'  two ledger lines above and below the staves are also C.  this helps students a lot. 

and, using index cards to read ahead.  some students don't look ahead once they've played a chord.  they need to start playing the chord and then looking at the next chord after it immediately.  using an index card to block the extraneous notes - makes what you are saying understandable.  at each sightreading session (which i would do first!) i would ask her to read one more chord ahead.  for instance the first lesson (read one chord - sight read one ahead) would be simple - the next harder (two chords ahead) - then next (three chords ahead).  she would play one and look at three chords that come after. 

now, to be sure that she sightread them - you could almost try taking the book away after the second it takes to read the following chord or chords.  but this might be too stressful.  i don't know on that one.

as long as she gets the concept of looking ahead.  professional pianists often scan pages at a time.

[klicker]

Thank you for the swift responses!    

From what her mother told me, she was *not* taught in the Suzuki method.  She was simply using the books I guess, along with Fingerpower 1, Alfred 4, and a simple hymn-book for sight-reading practice.  It seems that her level of playing (actually reading the notes) is more beginner, but she has learned some difficult songs somehow (maybe because of her helpful ear). 

She sight-read the Suzuki piece with seperate hands, but she also sight-read the Alfred song, which was most definitely not from the Baroque era.    I just assumed that her previous teacher did that as the rule. 

Thank you for the index card idea--I like it.  I have been thinking about how I would try to *help* her sight-read better, so thanx for the tip!

[pianistimo]

you're welcome!

[klicker]

well...we had another lesson, and used a level 2 Schaum book.  She *very slowly* sight-read the first song with both hands.  Would it be good to give her the level 1, and just have her sight-read one piece a day?  Then at the next lesson I could have her play a bit of each piece for me? 

How do you teach someone to read the notes if they can do it by ear?  Does it just take lots and lots of sight-reading practice?  I've only taught beginners, and I forced them to read the notes.  They even had to say the names out loud as they played to really *drill* them into the brain.  I feel rather at a loss right now.     I don't want to worsen the problem!

[stevehopwood]

How do you teach someone to read the notes if they can do it by ear?  Does it just take lots and lots of sight-reading practice?  I've only taught beginners, and I forced them to read the notes.  They even had to say the names out loud as they played to really *drill* them into the brain.  I feel rather at a loss right now.     I don't want to worsen the problem!

I always work with the skills a child has, not against them, so: I do not force natuaral readers to memorise; I do not force aural players (the subject of this thread) to read unnecessarily; I allow tactile learners to do their thing by feel.

There is no denying that reading is an enormous help when learning new music. I encourage aural learners to read, but 'tis a fact that people with aural learning skills will abandon the score just as soon as they feel they know the notes by the sound they produce.

My most frequent instruction to these people is, "Don't try to make it up as you go along, dear. You will find the score ever so helpful."

Eventually, they take some notice.  Usually takes a while, though 

Steve 

[penguinlover]

I agree with Steve.  I usually say, "Since you are not the composer, you should learn what the composer wants before you change it.  After you learn it, then you can put what you want into it."  They seem to be more patient in reading the score when they can see an end to it. 

[penguinlover]

I agree with Steve.  I usually say, "Since you are not the composer, you should learn what the composer wants before you change it.  After you learn it, then you can put what you want into it."  They seem to be more patient in reading the score when they can see an end to it. 

[penguinlover]

So sorry about the double post. It wasn't important enough to say twice!

[cora]

Try to have her compose and write it down.

Also, consider giving her 20th c. atonal music to develop sight reading.

Also, give her two levels to work at. For the easy level, I would not recommend a primer. However, for her easy level, try Leslie Fly's Snow White, or William Carroll's Countryside. They teach important concepts and yet are not difficult to read.

For her grade level, slowly work on something more difficult.

[lostinidlewonder]

For people with good ears for music you must get them to use that to help their sight reading. When I sight read pieces I have heard before I do not have to read rhythms or note values really, simply observe where the dots move to. I can also hear if I make a mistake and correct that finger.

To improve sight after learning how to read lines and spaces and legers is to get them to observe intervals. This will start them absorbing groups of notes at a time instead of reading individual notes. You must show how to read intervals in chords and strings of notes and how that effects the spaces between our fingers. You should also identify shape of strings of notes and chords and key signatures which are essential to know and FEEL before sight reading a piece.

I usually get a students to observe the key signature the piece they are attempting to sight read and play a C major scale with the accidentals included (with any controlled fingering). Then I get them to play random chords of 2 notes all over these scales, then 3 note chords, then a mixture of chords and single notes all paying respect to the accidentals of the keysignature. This gives an overall picture of the shape our fingers will move around while reading the passage, they can observe which notes will not be played unless they see a natural sign, they can feel particular spaces between notes the key signature produces.

To boost sight reading skills we have to target it in two different ways, speed of sight reading and accuracy. I usually target improving speed of sight reading by taking out "easy" music for the student that they can play with BOTH HANDS. They must play this at tempo WITHOUT stopping or correcting themselves if they make a mistake, they must start each bar with the correct notes, neglect rhythm/dynamics, just play notes, maintain correct fingering by observing maximum and minimum points of notes for every group of notes we sightread and the overall direction we are tending towards.

To improve accuracy we should take out music which is at the students standard or a little higher. Read super slow with 100% note accuracy (do not move until you know where to go policy), neglect rhythm/dynamics, maintain correct fingering. I like giving students I am training accuracy of sight reading something absolutely impossible for them to play, it is encouraging for them if they can actually play the notes, albeit maybe 1/50th tempo.

[pianistimo]

really great points!  sometimes we forget how we got somewhere.  when i read your post - it occurred to me that the interval reading was something very very important, too, to sightreading.   

also, stevehopwood is right on the money, as well.  i also do not give the same lessons to everyone.  there are so many different types of students.

i think it took me about three years (if i remember right) to learn all the basic chords.  perhaps that is another thing that one can do (after doing what lostinidle said about reading two-note chords, three-note chords, and so forth).  to 'feel' what they look like.  and visa-versa.  everyone usually 'gets' the ! IV V chord.  with very beginners - i have them share the notes in tetrachord fashion, first.  if you have 5432 2345 as your left and right hand fingering.  you can (after playing a scale in any key) have them play the thumb of the left hand while raising the right hand over their 'notes.'  this would be your I chord.  then, similarly, the left hand plays the thumb and produces the IV chord.  then, i tell them to move all the notes over one space and produce the V chord - and finally left hand I chord again.  usually all my first year students know all the major scales and basic chords and how they feel.

second year students start getting into separate hand stuff (with me).  left hand accompanying - right hand melody.  the reason i delay some of this is to accurately learn all the notes with playing melody mostly with right and left hand.  if you skip over sightreading the first year too much - you have students that just gravitate to play by ear.  they never really learn to sit down and read the notes.  but, it's not a terribly hard task to read one or two notes at a time in various melodies of method books (put into tetrachord fingering) and or popular songs that you write down that fit into tetrachord patterns. 

some students are very fast and learn all this in 4-6 months.  it just depends on the age and how motivated. 

imo, when students are pushed too fast to move from one thing to the next - they become careless and sloppy and guess.  but, if it is slow and methodical - you're covering steps that they will remember and put together easily.  hearing intervals is important too - so you can make up little tunes that go with each one.  'happy birthday' to a second, etc. 

i used to make up games where the student faced away from the keyboard and i'd play an diatonic interval and the student would guess it.  just focusing on on or two types of intervals each lesson.

my opinion is that it proves nothing for a teacher to have a student learn how to do this and that really fast.  ie - be playing beethoven sonatas within a year.  other teachers disagree.  and, think that it's good for sightreading and learning within repertoire.  but, some students burn out from all the work and others don't.  maybe, as steve hopwood mentioned, to find the students workload comfort and go with the amount of practice time they are actually putting in.  for most students under 8 - you're not going to be getting much more than the required 1/2 hour (unless you're like bernhard and giving them more than one lesson per week).

[klicker]

wow, more good thoughts and suggestions!  I appreciate them muchly!  I have been gone over the weekend (Daughter's 2nd birthday, and sadly, my grandmother's death), so coming back here and finding more excellent responses to my question was a welcome surprise.    

The primer level would be too easy (had her play a few from there, and she was able to do so perfectly), so I'm having her play through the 2nd Schaum book.  This music is slightly difficult for her to read, but she is generally able to have it perfected by the following lesson.  I also stopped the Suzuki book (it is really SO far above her level), and have her in a different classical anthology book that will hopefully help her work up to the Suzuki. 

Now I have some more sight-reading ideas to experiment with.