Best student turned to worst...

[ingagroznaya]

in a period of one year or so.

She is 13. Decline was gradual over a year. She has been in my studio for 5. I can't say she is not practicing, she does.
It's the mistakes she makes that really leaves me wonder lately. One or more notes are wrong in every measure. Week after week. She'd play an eight instead of a quarter, quarter instead of an eight, doted eight and sixteen - perfectly even. Legato when it says staccato. Staccato when score clearly indicates - connect. Flats where there is none! More flats. I feel she is not doing it to irritate me. She is actually a good kid.

I used to think she just became lazy, teenager, lost her interest, what have you... I do not think that anymore.

I'm very close with her mom. She is a wonderful woman.
This decline has been a major issue for three of us in the past 6 months. This girl is not the only teenager I teach.

Can any of you share your expiriences as a teacher or a teenage student? What is going on? I feel it is much more than teen hormones, or growing, or being preoccupied with boys. She still seems to be interested in continuing piano.

I asked her mom if she is still doing well at school. Mom says "yes". I find it very difficult to believe.
The kid is very bright or should I say "was"?  She was extremely musical, very fast learner. It's absolutely horrifies me how she deteriorates.

To me ( and I am not a doctor ) this whole thing starting to look like some form of ADD. As a friend of her mom, I genuinely feel concerned. I want to tell the mom to get her tested. Or as a teacher?
I love this girl. Something seems so off the usual aliment, but I do not want to offend.
I feel very confused.

[pianistimo]

interesting you are so intuitive.  sometimes teachers can be more aware of these things than parents.  brain function and diet sometimes go together.  the typical student often doesn't eat a snack before coming to alesson.  or sometimes, they eat a snack and all the blood goes to the stomach.  also, exercise.  i would recommend to the mother that she start encouraging her daughter to work out.  it solves a lot of things in one fell swoop.

[ted]

"She still seems to be interested in continuing piano."


You are quite sure, I assume, that she doesn't just want to stop her music in its present form for a while but is afraid of the reaction she might provoke in you and her mother ? Never mind the mother, have you asked the kid how she herself feels and talked about it with her in confidence ? Never mind about how well she is doing at school, is she happy ? I get the impression that the whole situation is being governed by you and her mother. I know what it feels like to be in that helpless position as a kid and it's bloody terrible because you're stuffed whatever you do, especially if teacher and parents are close. I wouldn't wish it on any kid. There was an absolutely frightful performance when I wanted to stop piano lessons at ten. I was a hard-headed little boy but the whole episode really twisted me about for a while. Totally unnecessary too; music was very strong in me and I came back to it when I was ready.

It MIGHT be something simple, as Pianistimo suggests; but then again it might not.

[stevehopwood]

She is 13.

That says it all, really.

It is normal for kids' interest in any activity to wax and wane. It becomes even more normal as they hit their early teens. All we teachers can do is our best to hold their interest.

In similar situations, I look at the repertoire I am using in the hope that I might see changes that might help. I will even let the kid select her own if I think this is what it takes to keep her playing. I also make sure the lessons are happy events in the hope of raising some enthusiasm.

Sometimes all this works, sometimes not. Good luck with your young lady.

Steve 

[le_poete_mourant]

There's so many things it could be. 

It's that magical age, when there's other things to distract her.  I know myself that relationships can be distracting, but only if you let them (and I don't).  I split my time now between my girlfriend and other things.  Occasionally I will have a day when I only practice an hour or two, but usually I try to make certain I get four hours in and still am able to see her.  Time management is a wonderful thing to be able to do.  Of course, it might be different if she lived closer than she does.  As it is I have to depend on other people for rides (she lives 20 minutes away... not walking/cycling distance... and the buses are so unreliable and out of the way).  But if she is not in a relationship that could be the problem.   Depression caused by an unfulfilled crush really takes motivation away. 

But maybe she's also gotten to the point where she thinks that perhaps it is not serving her as well; realistically, is this something she is going to want to pursue for the rest of her life?  If she can't see herself being successful with this in the future, that is, studying in college and perhaps turning to music for a living, then she may question the point.  What if I'm not good enough? she may ask herself.   And it's tough when there's a lot of very good young pianists out there to go up against. 

Maybe you should just... ask her.  It may be easier for her to talk to her teacher about it than to her parents, say. 

[pianistimo]

yes.  one of the best teachers i had (and first) in college, used to ask me every lesson before we started how the week went and what was going on in my life.  i thought it was nice being that he was a professional teacher, too.  he did this with all his students.  i would sincerely say he was a 'mentor' and not just a teacher.  if we were sad, he was sad with us.  sometimes he was everything i wished my parents would be sometimes.  to have compassionate feelings even if you disagree with the ideas.  he had a lot of enthusiasm, too, and it rubbed off on all his students.

some say that becoming 'friends' isn't the thing to do - but with certain students that you know have talent - i think you should talk to them and mentor them.  asking if they plan to keep taking lessons or if they are not having the time to put in anymore.  of course, if my mom had let me quit in seventh grade - i would have.  i actaully did quite for a year and played flute.  but that changed me entirely. my mom said i had to play one instrument but she didn't care which it was.  the flute was harder to me than the piano, so i went back after a year.  everyone in band wasted time, too.  now, i'm kind of glad my parents weren't 'friends' -- but i think teachers CAN be patient and ask 'what are your priorities at this point?' 

sometimes - about missing notes - it is a genuine failure to double check and you just practice the wrong notes accidentally and they become habit.  i wouldn't worry as long as you keep pointing them out and showing how accidentals can look one way and be another.  taping the lesson?  letting her listen to the right notes?  play it for her once or twice?  jsut some ideas.  i think many students practice and play - but hardly ever get to listen to cd's and concerts.  take her to some concerts.

[ingagroznaya]

But if she is not in a relationship that could be the problem. 

In a relationship? At 13?

[ingagroznaya]

Thank you so much to everyone who posted here. Unfortunately, it's over. My relationship with this family ended and ended badly.

[ingagroznaya]

But maybe she's also gotten to the point where she thinks that perhaps it is not serving her as well; realistically, is this something she is going to want to pursue for the rest of her life? 

Yes. She wants to pursue...
Amazingly enough she has 3 students of her own. Her neighbors begged her.

At the same time I feel she absolutely burnt out as a student her self.  With time, she will be fine.

[richy321]

Yes. She wants to pursue...
Amazingly enough she has 3 students of her own. Her neighbors begged her.

At the same time I feel she absolutely burnt out as a student her self.  With time, she will be fine.

What an incredible turn of events!  It really calls for some explanation, Inga.  What were the parting shots?  My guess is that she was learning boogie-woogie on the side and that's what her friends want her to teach them.  None of that stuffy classical junk.

Rich Y

[yamaha]

Thank you so much to everyone who posted here. Unfortunately, it's over. My relationship with this family ended and ended badly.

  What happened?

[quantum]

Yes. She wants to pursue...
Amazingly enough she has 3 students of her own. Her neighbors begged her.

At the same time I feel she absolutely burnt out as a student her self.  With time, she will be fine.

I still remember the student workload when I was 13.  I can tell you I had more schoolwork every weekday night than I had during highschool or university.  Sometimes I feel it is the unbalanced nature of the public education system that creates such an unnecessary workload for students at such an age. 

But please do tell of the circumstances which led to the end. 

[ada]

Unfortunately, it's over. My relationship with this family ended and ended badly.

Come on inga don't leave us hanging! Please tell the rest of the story, you don't have to identify the parties. We is in suspenders.

btw I would have thought your ever tactful manner would have averted a disaster 

[ingagroznaya]

Ada, there isn't much to say.  I do not know what the real answer was, but something went "off key" with this girl. I personally feel responsible for such an outcome. There is too much to say - I knew the family for a very long time or I thought I knew them well enough where we can have a grown up conversation. It was not happening.
Her mother just refused to listen that her kid is not doing well or try to figure out why. She seems to be too busy with two other younger children and this girl was always expected to perform to the limit.

Looking back - the kid ( my student ) is just burnt out. She wants to continue with piano, but it is no longer fun. She practices, but practices mechanically. Spark is not there. No surprise. Zero attention.

I feel big part of it was my old policy. Vacations was built-in into tuition fee, so if you miss a lesson - there is no refund. They have attended every lessons for five and a half years non stop. About 5 missed lessons over five years would make even me nauseous. I was not in position to insist on a break, as it would sounds as if I am asking for a paid vacation. About a month ago I finally suggested to take a month OFF piano. I've promised to keep a space and assure the parents that no payment is needed. Her parents responded - vacation? Oh no, she needs to work harder!

So after another useless session I called to talk to the mom. Mom does not want to hear anything negative about the girl. She does not want to hear that lessons are not productive. She drove her for years two hours each way and now she just flatly refuse to see that anything can go wrong. She was my most dedicated student ( Mom?). All I could say over the phone that lessons must be stopped.

I called her husband a day later, thinking that as a man he would not be so emotional...I know it's a drama in the house. I called to comfort and to explain that I want them to take a rest from lessons, I wanted to be sure there is no miscommunication - she is not fired. Piano lessons are not math! I could not say any of it... He said that they are actually very happy, immediately he changed his monolog to negativity in my personal life ( which I had smarts to share with his wife in the past ) and declared that they are now looking for a teacher who is qualified to fix what is wrong with the girl.

Richy, unfortunately playing boogie did not solve our situation. I've actually asked her parents for a permission to play some very wild boogie on our recital. Boogie is a part of my program.

[ada]

poor kid. another casualty of pushy parents.

[ingagroznaya]

There were so many variables in this situation, which I have no time to describe.

One of the main issue for me was not the fact that she was so exceptionally brilliant in the past, but the fact that both parents was continuously and very seriously talking about her pursuing piano in a future. I feel it's my responsibility to be exceptionally clear to a parent what he might expect later on. Piano performance was out of the question - the way things were going in the past year. No money or being friends can make me delude a parent into something that does not exist, even if the poor performance was only temporary. This disaster was taking place for over a year.

I have offered to play more fun pop pieces and to stop focusing on classical works so much - parents said :"no".

I can't deliver undeliverable. It was not a issue of tact. I have been tactful for a year. Sometimes you just have to call things by they own names - our lessons was not working.

[quasimodo]

poor kid. another casualty of pushy parents.

Funny, I consider myself as a casualty of non-pushing parents. I consider myself to be reasonably gifted in music, but as a kid I was not aware there might have been something there. I had lessons but in a very passive way.
And obviously before you get a late-teens maturity, you don't realize by yourself that stuff like music requires a lot of dedication and work. You definitely need parents and teacher to force you into things. I believe it's very seldom that professional musicians become so by their own will from the start.
So I wonder, what should I do as a parent? I think my daughter (3 years and a half) might have the right sensitivity for music. It's philosophically a tough question whether to push or not.

[ada]

It is a very tough question isn't it? To push or not. Unfortunately the price of being hugely successful in areas like classical music or ballet for example may be a horrible fucked up childhood.

BTW I wouldn't describe you as a casualty. You play very well 

But at 3yo quasi I wouldn't start worrying yet 

[ingagroznaya]

I teach one boy who is willing to do only opposite to what I say. After I figured that part out - teaching him became so easy !

I do think pushing is a must, but to a point. When pushing does not work, turning things around by insisting on wanting to be pushed often works. Make them beg for it, make them want it. Piano lessons are hard to give up for good.

[quasimodo]

It is a very tough question isn't it? To push or not. Unfortunately the price of being hugely successful in areas like classical music or ballet for example may be a horrible fucked up childhood.

BTW I wouldn't describe you as a casualty. You play very well 

But at 3yo quasi I wouldn't start worrying yet 

Oh, I'm not worrying at all... Just thinking. Little girl loves to climb on my piano bench and start mimicking concertists and bang the keys. They have piano courses in her kindergarten/school and she could start taking some on the upcoming year, which would be a great relief for the Mom, to have the monster out a few afternoons.
Now if she appears to be really good, soon enough, we would have to think about it.

[ada]

Piano lessons are hard to give up for good.

Piano is hard to give up for good. So even if your student stops for a few years, if she's had a good basic grounding she'll never forget. It's a bit like riding a bike.

I learned for many years as a kid and then didn't play for a long time. I was afraid I had lost my skill, but when I returned, I started again from exactly where I left off (after a few weeks practise).

[ada]

Oh, I'm not worrying at all... Just thinking. Little girl loves to climb on my piano bench and start mimicking concertists and bang the keys. They have piano courses in her kindergarten/school and she could start taking some on the upcoming year, which would be a great relief for the Mom, to have the monster out a few afternoons.
Now if she appears to be really good, soon enough, we would have to think about it.

I've been teaching my 6yo casually but because I have so little time she's always bugging me to teach her more and she's really keen to have real lessons.

But I know if I started pushing too hard it would be counter productive.

The bottom line is I don't have enough time to be a pushy parent. So I don't think she's destined for a career as a concert pianist but when she improvises she sounds like philip glass, so maybe she'll make it as a composer  .

[quasimodo]

The bottom line is I don't have enough time to be a pushy parent. So I don't think she's destined for a career as a concert pianist but when she improvises she sounds like philip glass, so maybe she'll make it as a composer  .

More exactly you're not destined for a career of child-prodigy's mother  .

[ada]

nope, that I am not 

[quasimodo]

nope, that I am not 

Anyway, you could consider sending your daughter to Inga for real lessons  . Apparently there's a free spot.

[ada]

Anyway, you could consider sending your daughter to Inga for real lessons . Apparently there's a free spot.

  I said I am a non pushy parent, not a sadistic parent!

(Just jivin' inga I'm sure you are a wonderful teacher)