could someone please help?

[hwhat06]

ok islamey is the one piece that i REALLY want to play.  once i can play this, i will feel like i've truly accomplished something at the piano.  but i need help.  i am trying to learn this, but i keep getting lost.  i've been playing for a year and i'm about at a level 8, so if you think that this piece is too hard, please suggest some other good pieces (that are NOT well known) that have great percussive and lyrical sections.  i really like rachmaninoff's elgie (in e flat minor), but it is just too relaxed for me.  i like mendelssohns sww, but they aren't hard enough to keep me busy for too long.  i like all of chopin's polonaises, but they are just too hard.  i really want to play the entire rhapsody in blue (gershwin), but that is way out there (so unpredictable that you question yourself once you play the notes, even if they're the right notes).  i can play libestraume no 3 (liszt), rhapsody in g minor (brahms), impromptu in c# minor (reinhold; BEAUTIFUL piece btw), malaguena (lecuona), prelude in c# minor (rachmaninoff)...about level 8 stuff.  i want to play jeux d'eau and gaspard de la nuit (ravel), but his music just seems impossible.  i want to play suite pour le piano (debussy) but it's too 'virtuoso' for me.  i can't seem to get it at all.  so if anyone has any suggestions on what to play, they would be greatly appreciated.  i'm going to college, but my work schedule cut my piano class out, so i'm not going to quit.  i just need some more pieces.  and if you read this, PLEASE post suggestions, because i'm dying playing the same things over again.  well thanks for your time.

                                Bill E

[mike_lang]

Are you certain that all of the Polonaises are too difficult?  Have you considered Eb Minor, Op. 26 no. 2?

Best,
Michael

[ramseytheii]

Mendelssohn - Rondo Capriccioso in E major/minor op.14 !!!

Walter Ramsey

[desordre]

 Dear Hwhat:
 If you just want to play one single piece, you should think of quit playing. If it's not really the case, find a good teacher: she/he will give you the right steps.
 Anyway, a set of pieces to study almost ever includes the following:
 - Bach's WTC;
 - Beethoven's Sonatas;
 - Chopin's anything;
 - Debussy's anything;
 - 20th century music.
 Of course that there are many other great composers, but I usually think of these as my "guidelines". So, for instance, a good starting point would be choosing a new Beethoven's Sonata to play. If you think you played too much Beethoven, choose Haydn, Mozart, or Schubert instead.
 Hope it helps. Best wishes!

[hwhat06]

thanks for your suggestions.  michael_langlois, chopin's polonaise (op 26 no 2) is not too difficult, but it will take some work because of it's virtuosity.  i do best with expressive, romantic music, but i want to attain the percussive style in my playing.  ramseytheii, i have looked at mendelssohn's rondo capriccio op 14 many times before and i was thinking that the presto section in e minor would be too hard.  but i printed it and i'm going to try it.  and desordre, your repetoire list is good.  i don't like bach because you must be so technically perfect, or the audience recognizes every mistake.  i have not tried much beethoven.  some of his music is so tired, but i am going to try a sonata or two and see how i like it.  i really like chopin, but so much of his music is difficult because of the runs.  i play a bunch of debussy, and i am trying to work on suite pour le piano, but i think its more working on me.  what do you mean when you say 20th century music.  could you please give me a few composers? thanks.  and when i said that i would feel 'accomplished' when i play islamey, i didnt mean that i would be done.  i just meant that that is one of my long term goals.  as is jeux d'eau and ravel's gaspard de la nuit.  so thanks for your suggestions, and if you think of any more, please let me know.

                                Bill E

[desordre]

 Dear Bill:
 The list of 20th-century composers of piano music is very long. Also it depends much on personal taste, since there's no common language. Anyway, let me make some suggestions:

 - Italy: Dallapicolla, Ghedini, Castelnuovo-Tedesco, Berio, Aldo Clementi, Donatoni, Petrassi, Scelsi, Togni, Federico Ermirio;
 - France & Spain: Milhaud, Poulenc, Satie, Messiaen, Boulez; Mompou, Turina;
 - Great Britain: Bennett, Berkeley, Britten, Maxwell Davies, Ferneyhough, Tippett, Dillon;
 - German & Austria: Hindemith, Stockhausen, Werner Henze, Lachenmann, Rihm; Schoenberg, Webern, Berg, Krenek;
 - Eastern Europe: Bartok, Enescu, Martinu, Szymanowski, Tansman, Gorecki, Raubenstock-Ramati, Lutoslawski, Kurtag, Ligeti, Xenakis;
 - Scandinavia: Rautavaara, Edlund, Abrahamsen, Borup Jorgensen, Ruders;
 - Russia, former CCCP, etc: Myaskovsky, Prokofiev, Rachmaninoff, Shostakovich, Stravinsky, Part, Schnittke, Ustvolskaya, Kabalevsky;
 - North America: Barber, Copland, Cowell, Gerswhin, Ives, Babbitt, Cage, Carter, Rorem, Feldman, Chavez, Ardevol;
 - South America: Villa-Lobos, Camargo Guarnieri, Mignone, Nobre, Gnatalli, Ginastera, Kagel, Piazzolla, Santorsola;
 - Asia, Africa: Takemitsu, Volans.

 Oh, boy...the list is endless. I just quote the composers I like the most, and I'm sure that I forget some of them. There are many many others: it's just a matter of time to listen. And to play!
 If you need any further help, please let me know. Best wishes!

[dnephi]

Try mastering some Chopin Etudes...  To me, Islamey is little more then an empty technical exercise, hard, yes, but not that musically important.   Jeux d'eau- Liszt or Ravel?

[allchopin]

michael_langlois, chopin's polonaise (op 26 no 2) is not too difficult, but it will take some work because of it's virtuosity. 
...
 i really like chopin, but so much of his music is difficult because of the runs. 

It is nice to have goals, but you may want to reconsider something more within the realm of your current abilities.  Here is an image of one of the most virtuosic passages in the polonaise:


And one of the hardest (among many) in Islamey:


From experience, I know that it can be discouraging (and always more inefficient) to bite off more than you can chew at once.

[hwhat06]

thank you for the list desordre. and dephni, i meant the jeux d'eau by ravel. you are one of the first people that has ever asked me.  and allchopin, it is very discouraging.  i have done it many times.  i have composed many piano pieces, and i am currently working on playing them.  btw, if you want to hear them, just email me at hwhat06@yahoo.com.  right now i am working on debussy's prelude pour les arpeges composes.  that is difficult, but not out of my reach.  so thanks for your suggestions. 

                           Bill E

[pianowolfi]

i've been playing for a year and i'm about at a level 8.

i can play libestraume no 3 (liszt), rhapsody in g minor (brahms), impromptu in c# minor (reinhold; BEAUTIFUL piece btw), malaguena (lecuona), prelude in c# minor (rachmaninoff)...about level 8 stuff.  i

You have really played only for one (ONE) year and are able to play these pieces??? i find that astonishing.

[quantum]

Since you are looking for rhythm you may want to try Ginastera - Danzas Argentinas.  It's a suite of 3 pieces: 1 is short and rhythmic, 2 very tunful and lyrical, 3 is a zealous display of non-stop-edge-of-your-seat rhythm. 

If you like a slightly longer piece you may want to try Ginastera's 1st Sonata.  It's about 15-20 mins in length. 

[hwhat06]

ok thanks yes i've been playing for one year, but so much of that was my teacher.  she has pushed me through even when i wanted to say 'forget it!'  quantum, do you know where i can go to get the ginastera pieces?

[mike_lang]

ok thanks yes i've been playing for one year, but so much of that was my teacher.  she has pushed me through even when i wanted to say 'forget it!'  quantum, do you know where i can go to get the ginastera pieces?

Durand publishes the Ginastera Danzas through Hal Leonard.

Best,
Michael

[thierry13]

Considering your rate, wait two more years building repertoire allways a bit harder and you could be good for islamey without too much trouble. Learning this currently would simply overwhelm you. You would get bad habits, unclear passageworks unclear pedalling etc. All depends on the potential, but I think you can progress enough in 2 years to play it well. If you work hard, who knows, maybe you'll be able to tackle it without too much trouble sooner.

[hwhat06]

ok i will try that song in a few years...in your opinion, do you think Lizst's Hungarian Rhapsody, for piano No. 12 in C sharp minor (aka "No. 2")' would be too hard?

[thierry13]

ok i will try that song in a few years...in your opinion, do you think Lizst's Hungarian Rhapsody, for piano No. 12 in C sharp minor (aka "No. 2")' would be too hard?

First it is not a song because it isn't sung, it's played, so it's a piece:P Second, I don't remember of anyone mentioning HR no.2 was 12 ? If you're talking about the famous one, then I think it would be a good challenge to keep you on the road to learn islamey in 1/2 years.

[ramseytheii]

First it is not a song because it isn't sung, it's played, so it's a piece:P Second, I don't remember of anyone mentioning HR no.2 was 12 ? If you're talking about the famous one, then I think it would be a good challenge to keep you on the road to learn islamey in 1/2 years.

If something that is sung is a song, isn't something that is played a place?

Walter Ramsey

[pianowolfi]

If something that is sung is a song, isn't something that is played a place?

Walter Ramsey

lol

[hwhat06]

ok i'm working on the hr #2...i heard this guy in college today playing liszt paganini etude no 5...do you think that this piece would be too hard...i absolutely loved it's fluency as well as it's abruptness...liszt is my favorite composer right now...he displays excellent mastery of virtuosity, romance, dissonance, as well as fluency...but anyway do you think that this would be good for me to try? thanks for your suggestions.

                                                             Bill E

[nanabush]

Sry, but if you found the pour le piano too 'virtuoso' then you'll have serious trouble with the Friska from HR 2.

[steveie986]

Dude. Stop. You've been playing piano ONE year - there's no way you can play this stuff. Seriously. When you say stuff like "I don't like Bach because you have to be technically perfect or the audience will notice," it basically means you aren't technically good enough to be playing level 8 stuff.

You see, the gap between "sort-of playing the notes of a piece" and "playing it well" is as wide as our galaxy. If you can post a GOOD recording of ONE of these pieces you're throwing out, I'll call you a prodigy and kiss your feet and go away. But I doubt that, with all due respect.

Take a deep breath. Calm down. Go play your scales & arpeggios. Go get a teacher if you're serious. When you call pieces of classical music "songs" and say that Rhapsody in Blue sounds "unpredictable," I doubt you even understand music, never mind the playing part.

[steveie986]

Hmm, you want to learn Islamey and Liszt etude after one year of "learning" the piano (by yourself)...

Yeah my fwend taught me the saxophone last week and now I'm like Charlie Parker, minus being black & the heroin addiction!!!111ONE

You're such an adorable & naive piano moran! Go fugue yourself.

[nanabush]

I find it strange that you can play the Rhapsody in G minor, and the C# prelude by Rach, but find chopin too hard because of runs.... the rhapsody has immense left hand workout at many parts, and the prelude is intense on the right hand.... I doubt you can play these if you find most chopin too difficult.

[hwhat06]

i'm so glad that you two have decided to gang up on me. first of all, why would i lie to people that i don't even know. i am not interested in impressing ANY of you, i just want to play. none of you have to believe me. and frankly if you don't then don't speak to me. because you will believe what you want to believe, no matter what i say or record. i appreciate suggestions as well as CONSTRUCTIVE criticism. but flagrant and rude comments:

You're such an adorable & naive piano moran! Go fugue yourself.

When you call pieces of classical music "songs" and say that Rhapsody in Blue sounds "unpredictable," I doubt you even understand music, never mind the playing part.

are completely unnecessary.

first of all, music jokes like 'fugue yourself' make you sound like an immature idiot.  and if you are planning on rebuking someone, you dont want to say 'adorable.'  darling it sounds like you want me. and i don't like bach because i don't like the classical era. i can play many pieces from bach's wtc 1 and 2, and from his two and three part inventions, and i really don't like most of them. the pieces that move me are from the romantic and impressionistic era. i call piano pieces 'songs' because they DO sing. they embrace the words from the soul and express them where other forms of communication would go unnoticed. and you want a 'GOOD recording' i will make you more than one.  so if you don't believe me then shut your mouth and don't post anything. i play. i learn. i don't need a teacher. i have progressed far beyone my time of study. and you know what. i am proud of it no matter what you pathetic losers that have nothing better to do than criticize people over the internet say. so you don't like it, then go play your piano and i hope you rot there because typing things that you have no idea about does you absolutely no good. thank you very much for your unappreciated, rude and completely bulls*** comments.

                                                                                   William

[steve_m]

4

[steveie986]

Enough is enough. We mustn't soil this great forum by arguing with a child. To my knowledge, no one has been able to tackle etude-level Liszt after one year, not even prodigies (who learn faster than college-age students). I don't doubt you're bright, but It Is A Fabrication, A Dream. We aren't telling you not to dream - because life is a dream, no? But you must recognize the fact that it is a delusion. Come on, be positive, good chap. Make a dream into reality, won't you? Play your scales and come back in a few years.

[nanabush]

Lol I wasn't trying to gang up on him, I was just wondering how the f*ck he could play any of those with a year's total practice, as well as without a teacher...  the LH technique required to play the rhapsody isn't super difficult for someone at that level, but seriously it's harder than anyone with a years TOTAL experience at a piano can play.

[hwhat06]

I graduated high school at age 16 and I had the professor of music at my college specifically request me for piano lessons. I have composed a symphony, 15 piano solo pieces, and I am currently working on a requiem. I'm not a genius. Music is simply my passion. If you don't believe me, then so be it. but keep watching for my posts.

                                                                William

[kriskicksass]

Let's see a score of some of your works, if you don't mind. I'm especially interested in the symphony, as that's a monstrous feat that many major composers shied away from. If you don't want to post them here, send them to me at Kris.Kicks.Ass@gmail.com . Please?

[steveie986]

Dear Young Mozart, my dog composed a symphony last night. His flatulence was in the key of C minor.

If you are so brilliant, why the *** do you need to post a thread on this forum about what kind of "impossible pieces I need to learn next?" Shouldn't your professor (who is supposedly drooling over you) be the one to tell you? You are a scam, like Tim Hofman (www.timhofman.com).

I know 16-year-olds in college, and most of them are not geniuses and are not destined for greatness. They are just lonely, imbalanced people who unfortunately are obsessed with delusions of their own grandeur.

[phil13]

I graduated high school at age 16 and I had the professor of music at my college specifically request me for piano lessons. I have composed a symphony, 15 piano solo pieces, and I am currently working on a requiem. I'm not a genius. Music is simply my passion. If you don't believe me, then so be it. but keep watching for my posts.

                                                                William

I would also enjoy seeing or hearing some of your works. I am a composer too, and have composed a 1-mvt. piano concerto, another work for piano and orch, 8 or 9 piano works, a cello sonata, and a couple other little non-piano pieces. But I've never written a real symphonic work (though the piano concerto is pretty thickly orchestrated)

Incidentally, what kind of piano works have you composed? Bagatelles? Ballades? Preludes? A sonata or two, maybe? I'd be interested in hearing more about them.

E-mail me at philtaylor13@aol.com

Phil

[walking_encyclopedia]

ok i'm working on the hr #2...i heard this guy in college today playing liszt paganini etude no 5...do you think that this piece would be too hard...i absolutely loved it's fluency as well as it's abruptness...liszt is my favorite composer right now...he displays excellent mastery of virtuosity, romance, dissonance, as well as fluency...but anyway do you think that this would be good for me to try? thanks for your suggestions.

 Bill E

okay billee that's real nice and cool, but are you trying to do a serious study of the piano repertoire, or are you just trying to impress your friends with your ability to play all romantic showy works? i haven't heard that you've played any basic bach, mozart, beethoven, or any of the greats.  i can see why liszt is your favorite composer.

i'm not calling you a moron or telling you to

Go fugue yourself.

but to be very honest with you, you need to wake up. get into some basic repertoire such as the abovementioned, and work on your technical skills. put the chopin etudes and liszt on the back burner right now.

you're a newbie, whether you like it or not. you've got to give yourself time to develop.

i'm so glad that you two have decided to gang up on me. first of all, why would i lie to people that i don't even know. i am not interested in impressing ANY of you, i just want to play. none of you have to believe me. and frankly if you don't then don't speak to me. because you will believe what you want to believe, no matter what i say or record. i appreciate suggestions as well as CONSTRUCTIVE criticism. but flagrant and rude comments: are completely unnecessary.

simmer down these people are just trying to wake you up like i am. you don't have a teacher and you've only been playing for a freakin' year!

first of all, music jokes like 'fugue yourself' make you sound like an immature idiot. 

you're the one being immature here billee

if you are planning on rebuking someone, you dont want to say 'adorable.'  darling it sounds like you want me.

o....k.....

shut your mouth and don't post anything. i play. i learn. i don't need a teacher. i have progressed far beyone my time of study. and you know what. i am proud of it no matter what you pathetic losers that have nothing better to do than criticize people over the internet say. so you don't like it, then go play your piano and i hope you rot there because typing things that you have no idea about does you absolutely no good. thank you very much for your unappreciated, rude and completely bulls*** comments.

                                                                                   William

I graduated high school at age 16 and I had the professor of music at my college specifically request me for piano lessons. I have composed a symphony, 15 piano solo pieces, and I am currently working on a requiem. I'm not a genius. Music is simply my passion. If you don't believe me, then so be it. but keep watching for my posts.

 William

ok now you're all defensive, and i understand that. you just got cut down to size, and you want to be respected as a musician.

nobody's trying to disrespect you as a musician, they're just trying to get you to 'get real' and you need to, little prodigy. otherwise you'll keep trying to play your showboat pieces and getting nowhere.

and kidding yourself at the same time.

see you around mozart!


danny