Rejection letter from university again.

[zheer]

   Ok this is the second time i've been regected the chance to study music at uni, has anyone else been in a similar situation. Well the first time was back in 1999, seven years later its the same story, the only difference is that am a lot older and wiser now, so i can take it. Anyway the reason for the rejection is that i dont have grade 8 practical on the piano and failed grade 5 theory.What would you guys do in this situation, and am not looking for sympathy am ok about it.

[prometheus]

Switch careers.

I did the same thing, though I never actually applied and was never rejected.

I wanted to enter conservatory to study composition. That was my passion. I worked on it for about two years every day. But then at some point my passion had tempered. I realised I did not have the natural creative impusles and natural talent. But I did have the intellect to do with if I had enough passion. So I decided not to do it.

The only reason for me to enter conservatory was to build a network and get an actual degree that would help me get a job in music. Which would mean I may end up composing commercial jingles. Not only do I hate commercials, one of the few things I actually hate, I also think music should not be used in such a way. The music there is not even entertainment, let alone art.

So knowing all this I knew it wasn't worth it. Now I hopefully will get an actual degree in the area where my true talent lays, though not my true passion. I did not dare to sacrifice my life for the sake of commercial jingles. I can still compose my art music, if I want to. I didn't really need a teacher to learn that. But without a degree it would mean it will probably never get performed or heard. But that is not important to me. So now, when I am going to compose in the future, I know I am totally free of any commercial pressure or influence.

Also, I did discover that I have a natural creative impulse for 'composing stories', though my crafmanship and command of language are lacking. So since I don't study music I can do both.

So unless you are absolutely sure you can enter next year I would try to get another education. You can still continue to learn paino and learn to play the pieces you really like. And if you are lucky you can also perform them for family or friends. Actually, you can still get some of a 'career' if you are lucky.

[zheer]

Switch careers.

  Good idea.

  Hay you did,nt tell us you had a passion for composition, i can imagin that thats a career suicide in the world of classical music these days.

  To be honest i was looking for 3-4 years of performance and composition related study, basically its the only way to perform regularly and build a program ready for competions with a degree as something to fall back on. O well i tried , time to move on .

[quantum]

Try another uni.  Maybe the ones you are applying for don't think you are suited to them.  Other uni's may have slighly differing opinions on the operation of their music program and it's directive. 

Out of the 3 I applied for 1 rejected me.  That particular one has a rather large music department with a lot of prestige.  There is also a lot of insentive that graduates from this place have the potential to advertise the uni's name. 

The other two welcomed me with enthuiasm.  However, a note must be made that their philosophy on how to run a music programe also differed.

Now looking back after graduating, I am quite happy with my education and pleased with my choice not to continue to apply to that said large university. 

[pianistimo]

i think prometheus is right on target.  if a piano teacher sees that you also have a talent in whatever else you study (languages, math, etc) - they are likely to just take you on - as a sort of elective class in piano lessons.  they are always needful of money - which goes in your favor.  go directly to the teacher you want.  tell them you are a registered student at that uni (when you become registered) and although you are not a music major YET, that you intend to change your course of study once you have completed or gotten well into your other subjects.  or, get a double degree.

i have met many adult students that are NOT performance majors but get into performance type classes.  some even sit in (and occasioanlly are allowed to play) for master classes.  you can at least ask!  master classes weekly are a wonderful wonderful thing.  they inspire you to keep practicing.  and, you become familiar with way more than your own repertoire.  sometimes you can get fingering from other students who are working something you want to learn later.  also, you can write down the advice in master class that the student is getting on that particular piece.  keep good notes!

there is rarely an instance where you cannot get lessons from a student of a famous teacher, too.  everyone needs money.  if you can't get in with the teacher you want ASAP - then go to one of their better students.  tell them your situation.  ask what they would do - and if they can give you lessons that would get you up to par in theory, etc. for that particular teacher. 

[zheer]

 Thanks pianistimo and quantum but i have applied to ten university's in totall, got rejected by 9 but this last uni said yes and changed their minds on the last minut. Anyway i wont give up on music, i have just lost faith with music institutions
and exminers, i think they are too selective. Anyway its funny because i dont feel defeated at all or inferior.

 The thing about master classes, they are too expenssive , need money for food, cloths ect. Hmmmmmmmmm my mother said am a good talker, might work in sales again.

   Thanks again guys for you advice they are vey helpfull.

[BoliverAllmon]

   Ok this is the second time i've been regected the chance to study music at uni, has anyone else been in a similar situation. Well the first time was back in 1999, seven years later its the same story, the only difference is that am a lot older and wiser now, so i can take it. Anyway the reason for the rejection is that i dont have grade 8 practical on the piano and failed grade 5 theory.What would you guys do in this situation, and am not looking for sympathy am ok about it.

pass the tests? just an idea.

[zheer]

pass the tests? just an idea.

  Yes it a good idea, but am not going to re-take my grade 5 theory in hall full of 6 year olds again , or practice my C major scale. I got the message with the rules and regulation but its time to move on.   

[prometheus]

Well, I am not saying that the best idea is to try for another education. But it may be the best idea. You are the only one that knows. The fact that you didn't pass all tests and thus didn't have enough credentials explains why they rejected you. You might be able to enter if you do pass them.
Since you studied for this theory exam I think you should try to finish it regardless of what you are going to do.

[zheer]

  Hey thanks guys for your help, as it goes i recieved a very welcoming e-mail from a different Uni this morning willing to offer me a place this september.

[pianistimo]

so glad to hear it.  go check out the uni bookstore and buy a first year theory book and workbook (if they have them).  just do it on your own on the weekend and when you have time.  BUT, TAKE PIANO LESSONS from a student or teacher if they will allow you to take lessons without declaring a degree yet.  you will not be sorry for the money spent on your other electives as you need them anyways.  get them done!  then, you have two years basically of lessons and easier classes.  by the third year you can declare what you want to do with all this.  double major or just music.  if i were you, i'd go for something HARDER first.  music comes easy to all people who love it - but it's a very hard living sometimes.  add more to your life with a bit of whatever you're good at.  then, you can combine two and three things to make a living.  some don't like this idea -- but for me it brought in more income.

i did reading tutoring (professionally - as i passed C-best and took two tutoring classes and got certified), sewing professionally (kept portfolio of pics and had a lot of business in california with many varied projects - usually people redesigning homes and needing slip-covers, bed-covers, pillows - and also sewed designer dresses), and piano lessons.  i never got bored because i could do a little of each one and didn't overload.

my parents encouraged my bro to take the 'johnson o'connor' test - but there are many other testing places that don't charge $600. to find aptitudes.  you can look in the library for books that might have practice tests and just sort of see yourself what your answers tell you.  colleges might offer aptitude testing in the counseling center.  also, if you like composing - find out about the technology they use and start practicing on it asap.  that's a job right at the university.  to help others learn the program.  sibelius, whatever.

[zheer]

  Thanks pianistimo, well obviously i did study the theory books prior to the examination, so the books i keep with my other books. Anyway i will be leaving London and out into what looks like a country side estate. Yepeeeeeeee.

[pianistimo]

congratulations!  enjoy your studies!

[Mozartian]

  Hey thanks guys for your help, as it goes i recieved a very welcoming e-mail from a different Uni this morning willing to offer me a place this september.

Woooo, congrats! That's great news!

[arbisley]

Where is this uni if you don't mind telling us?

[zheer]

Where is this uni if you don't mind telling us?

   Its a vey ordinary Uni in south west of England, i think Benjimin Britten visited the place ,other than that nothing special about the place.

[pianowelsh]

take a dipABRSM and do grade 6 theory and tell them to stuff themselves!! My A'level teacher told me i would never make a conservatory and that i wasnt the 'right sort' so i took grade 8 thoery and worked my butt off on the practical and not only did i get into all but on of the conservatories i applied to because i had the gd 8 theory i had offers from universities too. Show em whose boss!

[zheer]

take a dipABRSM and do grade 6 theory and tell them to stuff themselves!! My A'level teacher told me i would never make a conservatory and that i wasnt the 'right sort' so i took grade 8 thoery and worked my butt off on the practical and not only did i get into all but on of the conservatories i applied to because i had the gd 8 theory i had offers from universities too. Show em whose boss!

   Yes good idea, i will re-apply next year armed with a Dip in music. Thanks for your comments.

[arbisley]

Apparently grade 8 theory is like the automatic passport for getting into most universities, and of course a dip also.

[pianowelsh]

Depends. In some the face and wallet have to fit too. Cambridge, Oxford, Imperial etc are not necessarily going to let you in with a distinction in gd 8 theory and a performers dip. You would generally need more than that behind you (like 4 A's at A level) and considerable performing/accademic/musical accomplishments. But yes if you have a solid gd 8 theory and practical level that plus a couple of good academic subjects should get you into most universities. Then you just have to work your butt off to stay there, but thats a different matter.

[jakev2.0]

Maybe people who advance suggestions on "Haw to wipeout America" [sic] aren't quite what serious academic institutions are looking for.  Or maybe you have no musical talent.

[brewtality]

on the other hand, if you'd said you were jewish they'd have let you in no matter how untalented you are.

[zheer]

Maybe people who advance suggestions on "Haw to wipeout America" [sic] aren't quite what serious academic institutions are looking for.  Or maybe you have no musical talent.

 

  Most music schools are run by middle age white men, and you are one of those white individuals, they would give you prority over some one like me simply becausei am no white. The rejection was not on the grounds of talent since the person at the audition admited that i was above the rest in terms of knowledge and talen.
   

[prometheus]

If you were really rejected based on racism you may want to try to study oversea in a country, or city, where you think racism will be less.

[zheer]

If you were really rejected based on racism you may want to try to study oversea in a country, or city, where you think racism will be less.

  A very intelligent person told me once, that "we spend a life time smashing our heads on one door and we dont realize that there is another one wide open". No one can stop me from playing the piano but they can put obstacles  in the way.

[jakev2.0]

on the other hand, if you'd said you were jewish they'd have let you in no matter how untalented you are.

Yep. The Jews run the art schools. Rejected? Start your own political movement and show the Jews who's in charge. ...Then commit suicide in a bunker in Berlin.

[ramseytheii]

 

  Most music schools are run by middle age white men, and you are one of those white individuals, they would give you prority over some one like me simply becausei am no white. The rejection was not on the grounds of talent since the person at the audition admited that i was above the rest in terms of knowledge and talen.
   

I think in that case you have grounds to sue!  Which you absolutely should do, beacuse a lot of laws that exist to prevent racial discrimination come about from the power of statistics.  If nobody ever knows that you were discriminated against it won't be counted.

But I have to protest your characterization of middle-aged white men who in your view will give preference to other whities.  If this were true, taking into account the vast numebr of Deans and administration officials at Conservatories who are middle-aged white men, why are there so many Asians in the music schools???

Walter Ramsey

[jakev2.0]

Gee...maybe it's because they're admitting based on SKILL AND TALENT. 

[zheer]

, why are there so many Asians in the music schools???

Walter Ramsey

  Am middle eastern,living in london,they have a shoot to kill policy. Anyway you cant promise someone a place then chage your mind in the last minut. Obviously there are many many many more talented pianist out there,so fair enough i will move on problem, life is too short to get bitter and angry.

[leahcim]

  Most music schools are run by middle age white men

Oh please the race card. Try playing the £$%£$ing thing with no hands or head if you want to recipricate the way nations treat foreign nationals

TBH, I can't imagine why you'd want to go to Uni here. The UK has no history of pianists or composers of note - the list people type when you say that should prove it without a doubt, so what are you going to learn? To talk like a ponce afaict.

Besides, you made it clear that some of the tests that, if you had passed might well improve your chances of getting in to one of these unis, are now beneath you. If that attitude came across then it's no wonder you were rejected...otoh if that attitude didn't come across then you weren't being honest.

[prometheus]

Do note that when you are above average when it comes to people that audition this doesn't mean you meet the requirements to enter. They could have many many people applying and only room for a limited amount of students.

[franzliszt2]

TBH, I can't imagine why you'd want to go to Uni here. The UK has no history of pianists or composers of note - the list people type when you say that should prove it without a doubt, so what are you going to learn? To talk like a ponce afaict.

Benjamin Britten, Vaughan Williams, Gustav Holst, Peter Donohoe, Stephen Hough (did study in USA at a later age), Ronald smith, Myra Hess, Freddy Kempf, Stephen Osbourne,
SORABJI!!!!!!!

It's too easy to pull out the race card, there is lots of nationalities in UNI's in Uk, and the majortity are actually foreign in a lot of places

[zheer]

It's too easy to pull out the race card, there is lots of nationalities in UNI's in Uk, and the majortity are actually foreign in a lot of places

 
  Well look, at this point am  really not sure  if i want to study music at uni, anyway apart from music i have been subject to raceism since the day i was born, personaly i have lived through heavy bombardment, gas attach, gun fire simply for being of a different race, and here in the UK stoped and searched , attacked in schools ,streets, discriminated , refused to travel on public transport, treated like crap and recently offered a place at Uni with recomendation, and then suddenly refused entry to Uni with no explenation, when i ask for an explenation am refused an explenation and pushed to one side totally ignored despight my effort.
   Now dont get me wrong , am not angry or anything. Just  reminded where i belong, a rude reminder.

[ilikepie]

Grade 8 theory? I have no idea since in Canada, we only have until grade 5.

[leahcim]

Benjamin Britten, Vaughan Williams, Gustav Holst...blah blah blah

the list people type when you say that should prove it without a doubt

Thanks for reaffirming, but the proof was hypothetical, it's been done

If you'd fished out a Mozart or Beethoven amongst those composers you'd have had a point [ignoring the ones that aren't British], or since we were talking about piano, a composer / pianist like, say, Chopin or Listz. There isn't one, of course any number of competent also-ran composers / pianists may exist  - just like any other country has a bunch of pianists you might name, but if I'd said Germany didn't have any pianists or composers of note you probably wouldn't have said Ivan Hinkerbottom to refute that.

England only has Ivan Hickerbottoms.

[leahcim]

  Well look, at this point am  really not sure  if i want to study music at uni, anyway

Good, although that's obvious. However, a uni rejection letter scarcely compares with a gas attack or gunfire. If it is a reminder the gas attack can't have been that bad because everyone I know has had a rejection letter from a uni or from a job application.

E.g when I read the thread with your video of chopin's prelude I get from that video, the comments and your replies to them the impression that you are happy with the standard you reach and that your attitude is, although polite, mostly rejecting attempts from others to suggest how you might play that piece better.

At best I might say that you appear happy teaching yourself to play to a standard. At worst some might see that thread as showing that you're not interested in getting better, certainly not by taking on board 3rd party input to that end. What would the point be in going to uni? [There are of course people who go to uni, skip classes, know everything and invent rockets and the science to go with them...but you aren't one of them]

Lastly, although theory and exams are, of course, not necessary, nor indeed the be all and end all of what makes a good musician or pianist [or anything else] you aren't likely to find a university that wants students who take that view. Think about it. It's a university! "Exams? Nah not for me buddy, whaddya mean rejected. Is it cos I is black?"

Even if they may accept the premise is true [which for a lot of university staff isn't going to be the case] If you walk into the hub of acadamia then exams and theory and learning are the most important thing in that world.