Self Taught Pianist! Help

[eyeballnick]

Is there anyway to teach yourself to be an amazing pianist! i can play some grade 7-8 pieces, but i cant play many technical things and my fingering is very off! is there any practices that you can help me wiht to improve my technique. Thanks.

[zheer]

Is there anyway to teach yourself to be an amazing pianist! .

  Just a guess, but to be an amazing pianist, you need talent, a very good teacher and hard work. However if you are grade 7-8 to eight you are aready a good pianist, you have the basics and all you need is to work on more and more demanding pieces, so yeah.

[eyeballnick]

  Just a guess, but to be an amazing pianist, you need talent, a very good teacher and hard work. However if you are grade 7-8 to eight you are aready a good pianist, you have the basics and all you need is to work on more and more demanding pieces, so yeah.

Well, ive been playing now for about 5 years. Just finished the revolutionary etude. But i just need things to do while im practicing thats actually "practice" i find myself just improvising or playing what i already know! and ideas for practices?

[leucippus]

When you say "amazing pianist" what do you mean?

What kind of music do you want to play.  Who do you want to impress as an "amazing pianist"?

If you are looking to impress yourself then what would that require?  What would you need to be able to play to impress upon yourself that you are an "amazing pianist"?

Just pick out those pieces and start working them.  The pieces themselves will dictate or even become your practice "exercises".

Go see Bernhard's post.  He'll set you on the correct path to reach your goals.  No problem.  If you're a dedicated self-learner just read his posts and glean what works for you.  You can't lose.

[eyeballnick]

When you say "amazing pianist" what do you mean?

What kind of music do you want to play.  Who do you want to impress as an "amazing pianist"?

If you are looking to impress yourself then what would that require?  What would you need to be able to play to impress upon yourself that you are an "amazing pianist"?

Just pick out those pieces and start working them.  The pieces themselves will dictate or even become your practice "exercises".

Go see Bernhard's post.  He'll set you on the correct path to reach your goals.  No problem.  If you're a dedicated self-learner just read his posts and glean what works for you.  You can't lose.

The ability to play the beautiful pieces that i love, things like the Ballade in Gminor. Pieces that move me

[leucippus]

The ability to play the beautiful pieces that i love, things like the Ballade in Gminor. Pieces that move me

Are you talking about Chopin Op 23?

That's a monster!  I don't even have nightmares about playing anything that humongous.    Of course, I'm just a newbie still trying to learn Für Elise.

So where are you at with the piece?
What is your method of learning?  Sight-reading, hands-together, in-pieces, hands-separate, etc, etc???
Have your read Chang's book on the Fundamentals of Piano Practice?

You say that you don't feel that you make any progress.
Are you keeping a log of the progress you make each practice session?
When do you expect to learn the whole thing? 
Is that target realistic?
Do you expect to memorize this beast or play it by sight-reading?

I'm not asking these question for me.  I think these are questions that you need to ask yourself, and post explanations of how you are approaching the study so other people can make specific comments and suggestions on what you might try or change.

The only thing I know is that if I were going to tackle a piece that huge I would definitely do it in like a billion sections and be elated when I can just play a small section of it.  Then put the sections together as you go.  You wouldn't even need to necessarily learn them in the order they are played.

If you are already playing level 8 pieces you must have some method for learning already.  What pieces have you learned and how do play them?  Sight-reading or memory?  How did you learn them, piece meal, or as whole pieces?

Maybe a small introduction of your methods will help people give you ideas of how to attack this beast.  I'd really have to be into a piece pretty deeply to learn something that huge.  I do have dreams of learning Beethoven's Waldstein someday but I know I'm not even ready to begin on it yet.  I think I'm probably at level minus 8. 

But if this piece moves you I KNOW you can do it. You just need to find the correct methods to make good progress with it.  I learned from Chang's lot of methods that helped me learn much faster than I ever dreamed possible.  I'm STILL learning about how to learn.  And I'm making progress that has me standing in awe of myself.  So the methods are out there, you just need to find the ones that work for you.

If you can be specific in exactly what you're "walls" are you can find methods to break them down.   You just need to take on one wall at a time.  And sometimes that might call for a side-track that you really don't want to do but is necessary if you want to succeed.  That's when you have to bite the bullet and take the pain. 

[pies]

Self taught is the wrong route to take.  I know this from experience.
Get a teacher.

[leucippus]

Self taught is the wrong route to take.  I know this from experience.
Get a teacher.

Not everyone is a good self-learner.  It all depends on the individual.  Your personal experience can't be applied to everyone.  Everyone isn't you. 

[myotherself]

Hi there, I am MyOtherSelf, first and formost the fist most be as flexible as your wrist, dont jolt in the performance, the key is in the release, master that.  Most painist, espescially Daneil Baronboim, are victim to what I call, stiffness of passage, and you can tell.  Hope this helped you out.

[thierry13]

Not everyone is a good self-learner.  It all depends on the individual.  Your personal experience can't be applied to everyone.  Everyone isn't you. 

It applies to most normal people on this earth. In fact, acquiring a good piano technique isn't something natural, and it simply won't come along playing allways harder pieces. Playing scales CAN help, but even there, playing a scale perfectly, is way more complex than most people think. You have so much things to think at the same time, to get perfectly clean, even, with a good texture of sound, nice colours, proper motions, making the thumb sound like all the other fingers, using your wrist properly, ... etc. etc. ... and that only for a scale. Definately, get a teacher

[thierry13]

Hi there, I am MyOtherSelf, first and formost the fist most be as flexible as your wrist, dont jolt in the performance, the key is in the release, master that.  Most painist, espescially Daneil Baronboim, are victim to what I call, stiffness of passage, and you can tell.  Hope this helped you out.

Realeasing properly is another major point that was included in my "etc.etc." Very important thing i didn't mention. It isn't the key to piano playing, but it is one hell of an important matter to play any passagework/scale/arpegio cleanly.

[walking_encyclopedia]

Is there anyway to teach yourself to be an amazing pianist! i can play some grade 7-8 pieces, but i cant play many technical things and my fingering is very off! is there any practices that you can help me wiht to improve my technique. Thanks.

okay pal you're going to have to define your idea of an 'amazing pianist'. do you want to be able to play a piece really fast and have all your friends say 'wow, look how fast his fingers moved!!'

or do you want to begin a serious study of the piano, the repertoire, style, technique (which is just one tiny facet of piano performance), interpretation, etc. do you want to spend hours working on basic repertoire and expanding your skills in all style periods (eg baroque, classical, romantic, contemporary).


for the first, yeah, just learn how to play the 'revolutionary' etude really fast and maybe a few liszt transcriptions.

but if you had more of the second choice in mind, you need a teacher. you won't be able to 'glean everything you need to know from bernhards posts' as much as i respect bernhard, that will not work. you need someone  who is more experienced and knowledgeable point you in the right direction, curb bad habits, develop your skills, and push you to new levels.

acquiring a good piano technique isn't something natural, and it simply won't come along playing allways harder pieces. Playing scales CAN help, but even there, playing a scale perfectly, is way more complex than most people think. You have so much things to think at the same time, to get perfectly clean, even, with a good texture of sound, nice colours, proper motions, making the thumb sound like all the other fingers, using your wrist properly, ... etc. etc. ... and that only for a scale. Definately, get a teacher

excellent advice.

[sevencircles]

Just a guess, but to be an amazing pianist, you need talent, a very good teacher and hard work

The greatest classical pianist of the 20:th century and the greatest Jazz pianist  were both selftaught.

There are people that make a lot more progress without a teacher.

I happen to be one of those, myself.

I learned to sightread using Noteworthycomposer by the way.

[brewtality]

The greatest classical pianist of the 20:th century and the greatest Jazz pianist  were both selftaught.

Oh really? and who would they be?

[walking_encyclopedia]

Oh really? and who would they be?

hmmm that's exactly what i'm wondering

[sevencircles]

hmmm that's exactly what i'm wondering

Godowsky and Tatum.

[violinist]

I'm a "self taught" pianist these days.   I took lessons from age 5-10 but then my teacher kicked me out at age 10, so.... no teacher

But I've had violin teachers for a long while.

It will almost be a year now since I started playing again since age 10.

Good luck.  But I'm looking for a teacher who won't traumatize me again.

[brewtality]

Godowsky and Tatum.

Godowsky. It's not a conclusion I'd draw from listening to his recordings (though he did make a couple of great ones.)

[sevencircles]

Godowsky. It's not a conclusion I'd draw from listening to his recordings (though he did make a couple of great ones.)

He was old and didn´t like the recording process so that may be one reason for that.

Josef Hofmann said that Godowsky was the master of us all and he would propably never said that unless he really thought so.

Hofmann stated that Rach 3 that was dedicated to him was a pretty bad piece and he was in general hard to impress.

[quasimodo]

Godowsky and Tatum.

I'm not sure about Tatum being self-taught...

[jalgor]

I'm not sure about Tatum being self-taught...

I believe he had some formal training in his youth, but he is mostly self-taught.

[thierry13]

I believe he had some formal training in his youth, but he is mostly self-taught.

This youth formal technique is the basis, and is what is REALLY important. Too, I think classical technique is more strict, rigorous, and requires to be more clean than in Jazz. In jazz, you mostly improvise, so if it is not clean here and there, you won't be a less good pianist because of that. Plus, they do not need to have THE good technique to play, since they do not have to play every kind of it in different pieces. Jazz pianists use the techniques they are good in, so even if they developed some bad habits, they can play it as they want, and it will sound good at Jazz standard. Classical standard is way more strict. Again, I didn't say Jazz technique was easier by any mean, just that it was less strict than classical technique.

[mcdonaldgt5]

My son recently began his University Freshman year and reports that he had no idea how good a sight reader his dad was until he was able to compare with other students. If you are self taught as I am you are not an ugly duckling. It is Interesting to remind all of the historical role of the piano "dilletante". The word may have a poor conotation today but in context, in a world without audio reproduction of any kind, the world of large format music especially was the concert stage or the piano reduction/ transcription. Today we are few but that environment must have produced many who could sight read anything, more difficult slowly, soley for the joy of hearing the harmonies and marveling at the difficulty in performance. You are not a performer but an aficionado of the paino literature. And I might add, not having a teacher is an advantage in that only the literature you like or have an interest in is the subject. Can any performer say that every day their interaction with the instrument is nothing but a delight! And that their lives are free to pursue other interests. From Rach. to Gershwin to Liszt. One of the best things I ever did was start the self learn process 26 years ago.

[gyzzzmo]

Take a good teacher for like 2 months. Wont cost you much but you'll learn loads! And hopefully get rid of the big flaws you probably learned yourself.

[frau]

Get a teacher, and get a good teacher.

If you want to be an amazing pianist, then you must be a well-rounded pianist.
A well-rounded pianist can only be a well-educated and well-practised pianist.

[forevere2]

I was just like you. However, I wasn't completely self-taught, as in I had a piano teacher for like 3 years, up to learning Chopin Noctures, and some mozart sonatas. However, she never taught me scales, arrpegios, or any type of rhythm and music theory. So I was kinda screwed.

That was until I started learning scales, harmonics, etc... That was a great help in studying more advanced pieces. I believe that the best way to tackle those big pieces that you want to play is to be very familiar with the piano. There should be very little thinking about finger positioning - it should just flow. So how do you develop this flow? Scales, and arrpegios are a help. Also, if you want to build technique, and you don't have time to invest in learning entire pieces, try out the theme sections of each of the Chopin etudes, or learn some of the smaller ones such as op.25 no.9. Bach is a great help in rhtyhm.

Currently I've learned (some)
Bach: 2-part inventions all
Chopin: Scherzo in B-minor, Ballade op.23, FI, lots of waltzes, handful of nocturnes,  etudes op.25 5,9,12      op.10 no.1,3,4,8

Now I'm working on Mazeppa (which isn't that hard despite my lack of liszt repertoire)

Basically, do some bach, scales, arrpegios, and etudes. Having a teacher is a benefit, but not completely neccessary.