Busoni's "Twelve Commandments"

[dnephi]

I saved this from the chopinmusic forum before it disappeared.  Here is what it said:

"I found this in a book, though, called The Art of the Piano by Dubal. Some of you probably already have this but I thought it was REALLY cool. Unfortunately, he has a semi-unflattering passage about Cziffra, but he makes up for it with his hilarious comments about Lang Lang (as hilarious as you could expect in a book like this, I guess).

Anyway, this part is super-cool, at least for me. He list's 12 "Commandments" set forth by Busoni (not called that in the book) for pianists:

1) Practice the passage with the most difficult fingering; when you have mastered that, pla it with the easiest.
2) If a passage offers some particular technical difficulty, go through all similar passages you can remember in other places; in this way you will bring system into the kind of playing in question.
3) Always join technical practice with the study of interpretation; the difficulty often does not lie in the notes, but in the dynamic shading prescribed.
4) Never be carried away by temperament, for that dissipates strength, and where it occurs there will always be a blemish, like a dirty spot which can never be washed out of a material.
5) Don't set your mind on overcoming the difficulties in pieces which have been unsuccessful because you have previously practiced them badly; it is generally a useless task. But if meanwhile you have quite changed your way of playing, then begin the study of the old piece from the beginning, as if you did not know it.
6) Study everything as if there were nothing more difficult; try to interpret studies for the young from the standpoint of the virtuoso; you will be astonished to find how difficult it is to play a Czerny or Cramer or a Clementi Etude.
7) Bach is the foundation of piano playing, Liszt is the summit. Beethoven makes the two possible.
8 ) Take it for granted from the beginning tha everything is possible on the piano, even when it seems impossible to you, or really is so.
9) Attend to your technical apparatus so that you are prepared and armed for every possible event; then, when you study a new piece, you can turn all your power to the intellectual content; you will not be held up by technical problems.
10) Never play carelessly, even when there is nobody listening, or the occassion seems unimportant.
11) Never leave a passage which has been unsuccessful without repeating it; if you cannot do it in the presence of others, then do it subsequently.
12) If possible, allow no day to pass without touching your piano."
I disagree with #1, #3 (slightly) and #7 seems not so useful and a bit opinionated.
However, #2, #5, #8, #9, #10, #11and #12 seem very useful.
The most efficient way to learn a piece is to not even go near making mistakes.  If you never make a mistake, then you are almost never going to make a mistake later if you learn your pieces correctly.  #5 mentions practice habits and how that is by far the most important.  #2 is helpful.  Any passage in double notes is better if I warm up with March Wind.
What do you think?

Discuss.
 

[ilovemusic]

I saved this from the chopinmusic forum before it disappeared.  Here is what it said:

1) Practice the passage with the most difficult fingering; when you have mastered that, pla it with the easiest.

This one is ridiculous. Learning a wrong fingering almost the same as learning a mistake,
as far as I am concerned, . Practrising in another key or with another rythm is quite usefull, however.

3) Should be the goal (the instrument mastered technically at least up to the level of the piece)

And about the summit thing ?? There are more ways to go from A to B I think.

Joost.

[nick]

I agree that practicing with 0 mistakes is most important. Also the ridiculousness of practicing with more difficult fingers, then going back to the easier one. Life is too short.

Nick

[bench warmer]

practicing with more difficult fingers, then going back to the easier one.

Don't forget , these guys didn't have a whole lot else to do.

No TV. iPods, radio, cars electric lights, telephones internet. He probably tried the toughest fingering for just something to do between eating, sleeping having sex and getting rid of bodily wastes.

[pianowelsh]

I may be wrong but in fairness to Mr Busoni - he may not mean a 'wrong' fingering. There are often several options for a passage - a case in point could be the opening of the doubled thirds study of Chopin. If you get a few editions you will see there are usually differences in the finger combinations suggested. I think what he means is - try the one that you find hardest first and get it to the point that you could play it acceptibly that way then try the easier fingering and you will find the passage much easier to play - ultimately you may alter it and have a combination of the two fingerings if in trying them you discover that a certain finger grouping helps you get the best sound/articulation.   Im not saying I totally agree with him on that one but I have done it in the passed and when you are living with a piece for a while you do sometimes change your mind on fingering . I think here he is suggesting that students practice ebing flexible and adaptible.   I know that in a masterclass situation students are often asked to change fingering and cannot play it straight off with the new fingering when asked - embarressment usually ensues! Maybe mr Busoni in his foresight is trying to prevent this???

[nick]

And if you start out playing with your ears, then go back to fingers, it will seem sooo easy. na

Nick

[kriskicksass]

Cortot gives about 12 different fingerings for the thirds etude and also recommends learning the most difficult fingerings. Actually, he recommends learning all of his fingerings and then performing with the one you find most difficult, as that will ensure your total concentration.

Sounds good in theory, but I don't have the stones to try something like that. Too easy to accidentally unintentionally use a different fingering that you'd planned, totally messing you up.

[pianowelsh]

Agreed it is really only adviseable for assured performers who are serious about the details and are willing to go to any lengths to get the right sound - the right speed etc - it is all borne out of a spirit of enquiry. One must remember Cortot and Busoni never taught a 'normal' student in their lives they practised on conservatoire students!

[bernhard]

I saved this from the chopinmusic forum before it disappeared.  Here is what it said:

"I found this in a book, though, called The Art of the Piano by Dubal. Some of you probably already have this but I thought it was REALLY cool. Unfortunately, he has a semi-unflattering passage about Cziffra, but he makes up for it with his hilarious comments about Lang Lang (as hilarious as you could expect in a book like this, I guess).

Anyway, this part is super-cool, at least for me. He list's 12 "Commandments" set forth by Busoni (not called that in the book) for pianists:

Busoni was considered by many the greatest pianist of his time, so anything he has to say is interesting. So, thanks for sharing.

One problem with "commandemnts" is that they usually need qulaification. So manytimes we may disagree with something that Busoni could have explained better if asked to do so. Anyway, here we go.

1) Practice the passage with the most difficult fingering; when you have mastered that, play it with the easiest.

Complete waste of time. It also assumes that one knows what will be the most difficult and the easiest fingering.  Investigation of the easiest fingering may of itself consume huge amounts of time. I think this is complete non-sense.

2) If a passage offers some particular technical difficulty, go through all similar passages you can remember in other places; in this way you will bring system into the kind of playing in question.

Yes, this is very useful advice. However it requires much experience anc knowledge of repertory.

3) Always join technical practice with the study of interpretation; the difficulty often does not lie in the notes, but in the dynamic shading prescribed.

Yes, this is mandatory because technique is decided by interpretation. One must only approach a piece of music after one knows what sound one is after. He should have stopped at the first sentence. The "dynamic shading" bit doesn´t make much sense to me. (What about articulation?)

4) Never be carried away by temperament, for that dissipates strength, and where it occurs there will always be a blemish, like a dirty spot which can never be washed out of a material.

I am not sure what he is about here. At first I thought he was talking about systems of tuning , but then I realise that he is talking about emotionalism. Yes, I agree and I hope Lang Lang reads this.

5) Don't set your mind on overcoming the difficulties in pieces which have been unsuccessful because you have previously practiced them badly; it is generally a useless task. But if meanwhile you have quite changed your way of playing, then begin the study of the old piece from the beginning, as if you did not know it.

Yes, this is very good advice. Even if you practised a piece correctly, it is a very good idea to leave for a couple of years and then revisit it as it was a compltely new piece and relearn it from scratch. This is actually the basis for permanent memory.

6) Study everything as if there were nothing more difficult; try to interpret studies for the young from the standpoint of the virtuoso; you will be astonished to find how difficult it is to play a Czerny or Cramer or a Clementi Etude.

I would not put it quite that way, but I think I understand what he is getting at, and I would agree. (Also I wouldn´t bother with Czerny, Clementi or Cramer).

7) Bach is the foundation of piano playing, Liszt is the summit. Beethoven makes the two possible.

Bach: Definitely.
Liszt: Maybe.
Beethoven: I think he is way of mark here (Bach died in 1750, Beethoven was born in 1770).

I would say this is one of these senteces crafted to impress and be quoted later on, but on closer scrutiny turns out to be complete baseless. (By the way, I love Beethoven - I just don´t think he makes it possible to play Bach and Liszt).

8 ) Take it for granted from the beginning tha everything is possible on the piano, even when it seems impossible to you, or really is so.

Most definitely.

9) Attend to your technical apparatus so that you are prepared and armed for every possible event; then, when you study a new piece, you can turn all your power to the intellectual content; you will not be held up by technical problems.

No. He is way of mark here. he believes that techniqeu can be acquired in isolation. Of course, I do agree that one should not be held by technical problems, but the way to be preapred for them is to work on the pieces. There is no way you can be prepared for every eventuality by working on technique alone, becuse there is no such a thing as technique alone.

10) Never play carelessly, even when there is nobody listening, or the occassion seems unimportant.

Yadda yadda. However, the only person ever top paly the piano when no one was litening was Beethoven in his old age, so I will disregard this commandment as another "quotable" sentence.

11) Never leave a passage which has been unsuccessful without repeating it; if you cannot do it in the presence of others, then do it subsequently.

I am not quite sure what was meant here. I believe he istalking about passages one flunked publicly, and therefore one is now afraid of playing it. Sort of "if you fall form a horse you must mount again".  So, yes, I agree.

12) If possible, allow no day to pass without touching your piano."[/i]

No, getting a few days away from the piano can be very good. (I would not even apply this commandment to a girlfriend  )

I disagree with #1, #3 (slightly) and #7 seems not so useful and a bit opinionated.
However, #2, #5, #8, #9, #10, #11and #12 seem very useful.
The most efficient way to learn a piece is to not even go near making mistakes.  If you never make a mistake, then you are almost never going to make a mistake later if you learn your pieces correctly.  #5 mentions practice habits and how that is by far the most important.  #2 is helpful.  Any passage in double notes is better if I warm up with March Wind.
What do you think?

I agree with you. A lot of work shoud be done away from the piano, before one touches any key, so that when one actually does that no mistakes are incurred.
 
Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[bernhard]

Cortot gives about 12 different fingerings for the thirds etude and also recommends learning the most difficult fingerings. Actually, he recommends learning all of his fingerings and then performing with the one you find most difficult, as that will ensure your total concentration.

Sounds good in theory, but I don't have the stones to try something like that. Too easy to accidentally unintentionally use a different fingering that you'd planned, totally messing you up.

Maybe that explains why Cortot was always messing up...

(by the way, Cortot is one of my favourite pianists, in spite of his inapropriate technique).

BW,
B.

[m]

Maybe that explains why Cortot was always messing up...

(by the way, Cortot is one of my favourite pianists, in spite of his inapropriate technique).

Bernhard,

You leave me wondering--what do you mean by "inapropriate technique" in relation to Cortot?

[pianolist]

When Cortot is flying high, there is no "in spite of". Well, perhaps one can say, in spite of our own ears. We are just too hung up on the exact notes these days. They really don't matter. That should get the discussion going!

Busoni's commandment no. 4 - he is quite right that emotion should not take over, but it does need to be there. It has always seemed to me that one of the miracles of a good performance is the constant juxtaposition of emotion and technique. I was once told by a violinist friend that by the time one comes to a performance, one should have worked out an interpretation, so that one can evoke an emotional response in the audience, without feeling emotional oneself.

It sounds plausible, but I have come to disagree totally. Of course, one must always remain in control, but the greatest performances come from musicians who feel the emotion of the music at the time of performance. The more one feels, the more one has to concentrate to remain in control, and the heightened concentration is one of the real joys of performance.

By the way, Bernhard, I went to a concert at the London Barbican in June, where Lang Lang played a Beethoven concerto with the LSO under Gergiev. The man is a clown, and spent the orchestral introduction moving his arms stiffly around in the air, and making silly faces. Perhaps he was trying to help Gergiev conduct, but something tells me Gergiev doesn't need Lang Lang's help. His interpretation was banal, he was more intent on striking dramatic poses than serving Beethoven, but of course he received rapturous applause. People have cloth ears. All Lang Lang needs now is the candelabra and the gold lamé suit.

[practicingnow]

People, we are talking about Ferrucio Busoni here.  I'm not saying that his ideas are above all examination or criticism, but let's not be so quick to dismiss his ideas as "useless" or "ridiculous". 
From what I have read and heard about him, it wouldn't be so far fetched to say that he was the greatest of his day, and might have known the piano better than anyone alive today does.
So Mr. Busoni might have something to contribute to this group after all, and a wise student might try his "useless" ideas before throwing them in the trash, regardless of how silly #1 sounds on the surface...

[pianolist]

Speaking personally, I'm not at all dismissing Busoni. I think the world of pianism would be immeasurably improved if students were made to listen regularly to pianists of a hundred years ago. But of course, it's only fun to play authentically when there are no recordings of the period to disprove the musicologists.

I thought we might make this discussion more fun by posting a picture of Busoni at the piano. Here he is recording for the Welte Company in Freiburg-im-Breisgau on 16 March 1907.

[debussy symbolism]

Greetings.

Busoni is right about Bach being the foundation.

[arensky]

1) Practice the passage with the most difficult fingering; when you have mastered that, pla it with the easiest.

 I think what he means is to examine a given passage from every possible angle considering all possible fingerings, to be able to really understand it and how it should be executed. As Bernhard points out it's quite possibly a waste of time to actually learn and perfect the worst fingering. But why not figure it out, play with it and to know why it and others possibilities are bad. Of course what a good or bad fingering is a subjective matter in many cases as we all have different physical advantages and liabilities. I often devise several fingerings for certain problematic passages, and evantually end up with a combination of two or more (or not). Why not consider every option? To know why a fingering is better or worse than another is to gain more insight into what makes good piano playing (or bad playing) good or bad.

2) If a passage offers some particular technical difficulty, go through all similar passages you can remember in other places; in this way you will bring system into the kind of playing in question.

Sure, why not? Did this last night with the last movement of  the Rubinstein Cello Sonata op.18. A recurring passage has fast downward triplet arpeggios starting with a double third on the beat. A similar figuration also occurs in the 1st. mvt. of Mendelsohn's d minor trio, as well as in the Franck Piano Quintet and Debussy's Blanc et Noir. I got those scores out and reviewed those passages. This was helpful in learning the passage in the Rubinstein sonata.

3) Always join technical practice with the study of interpretation; the difficulty often does not lie in the notes, but in the dynamic shading prescribed.

Of course. Add articulation to this "commandement", as Bernhard correctly points out.

4) Never be carried away by temperament, for that dissipates strength, and where it occurs there will always be a blemish, like a dirty spot which can never be washed out of a material.

I agree with this but it's dangerous advice. Many artists who follow this path become automatons.  The key phrase here is "never be carried away". Use temperment, but don't let it rule you. This is the study of application and use of resources, and to be able to utilize them most effectively.

5) Don't set your mind on overcoming the difficulties in pieces which have been unsuccessful because you have previously practiced them badly; it is generally a useless task. But if meanwhile you have quite changed your way of playing, then begin the study of the old piece from the beginning, as if you did not know it.

Been there done this.    He's right.    The key phrase here is "if meanwhile you have quite changed your way of playing". If this isn't the case you're wasting your time.

6) Study everything as if there were nothing more difficult; try to interpret studies for the young from the standpoint of the virtuoso; you will be astonished to find how difficult it is to play a Czerny or Cramer or a Clementi Etude.

I'm not sure about this. I'm inclined to substitute the word "easy" for "difficult", but that's not  good either. I think perhaps he means to give everything your full attention and learn it exactly and thouroughly, and not to dismiss or underestimate a piece that seems "easy".

7) Bach is the foundation of piano playing, Liszt is the summit. Beethoven makes the two possible.

Cryptic pseudo Zen hyperbole    Bach did not play the piano, and he lived before Beethoven. I believe the first important bodies of keyboard music are those of Frescobaldi and the English virginalists, Byrd, Farnaby, Gibbons, et al.

8 ) Take it for granted from the beginning tha everything is possible on the piano, even when it seems impossible to you, or really is so.

More zen; this seems to contradict #6, but they actually complement and mirror each other. It just occurred to me that that's the real idea behind #1, knowing and understanding both sides of the coin for a full understanding of the matter at hand.

9) Attend to your technical apparatus so that you are prepared and armed for every possible event; then, when you study a new piece, you can turn all your power to the intellectual content; you will not be held up by technical problems.

Of course. How to do this is another matter, one which we discuss, hash out and debate constantly.

10) Never play carelessly, even when there is nobody listening, or the occassion seems unimportant.

Yes. Playing well is a habit that should be formed. Playing carelessly breaks that habit, and is itself a bad habit. This might be the most difficult of these rules to follow, always being focused and concentrated. Ideally focused playing becomes a reflex, but then is it creleass? Hmmmm. 

11) Never leave a passage which has been unsuccessful without repeating it; if you cannot do it in the presence of others, then do it subsequently.

Yes, but if you're getting angry and frustrated, leave it alone. It will succumb evantually.

12) If possible, allow no day to pass without touching your piano."

I say leave it alone and give it a rest every once in a while when you have the chance. I didn't touch a piano for 17 days after last semester (was on vacation). When I started practicing again there was a clarity and freshness in the music that had been missing for a couple of months before my hiatus. Of course I had to get my fingers back up to speed, but that only took a couple of days. I guess it depends on the individual.

Here's a link to Busoni's famous pupil and pianist extraordinaire Egon Petri's principles. They are more specific and detailed in matters of technique.

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,14874.0.html

[arensky]

I think the world of pianism would be immeasurably improved if students were made to listen regularly to pianists of a hundred years ago. But of course, it's only fun to play authentically when there are no recordings of the period to disprove the musicologists.

I couldn't agree more. What better way to understand how to play and interpret the music of 100 years ago than to listen to the recordings that are available from then, and this includes artists rolls. Rolls are controversial, and can be and were edited the way recordings are today, but the authentic ones are invaluble documents of how artists played at the time (or closer to the time) the pre-modern repertoire was composed. To ignore these recordings or to dismiss them out of hand is willfull ignorance. As for the musicologists, some are coming around.

I heard a concert of Duo-Art rolls in NYC in 1980 or 81, played on a restored Duo-Art Mason and Hamlin concert grand.  Artists on the rolls included Rachmaninov, Cortot, Granados, Rubinstein (Artur) and others. You could really hear the difference in the artists dynamics, shading and attack. I believe rolls are legitimate representations of a pianists playing, IF they haven't been doctored, as were several of Paderewski's.

Man, I love the old records. 

[pianolist]

Good evening, Arensky,

I'd like to take you up on the question of piano rolls and their editing. But I probably shouldn't do so in this topic, because I ought to leave it to those interested in Busoni and his observations. So I'll start another piano roll topic for us, and anyone else who might be interested. I'll take the liberty of copying your message across.

Regards from across the pond.

[bernhard]

Bernhard,

You leave me wondering--what do you mean by "inapropriate technique" in relation to Cortot?

Wonder no more :

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/board,6/topic,19043.18.html#msg206386
(Debunking of Cortot – real technique is easy and does not need to be practised once acquired – Liszt´s story)

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[m]

Wonder no more :

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/board,6/topic,19043.18.html#msg206386
(Debunking of Cortot – real technique is easy and does not need to be practised once acquired – Liszt´s story)

Bernhard,

Your passages in the thread you linked made me in fact, wondering even more. To me they sound like only one side of the story at very least, if not highly opinionated, without any connection to the "real life".

I don't want to hijack this thread so will reply in the appropriate one.

[bearzinthehood]

Bach: Definitely.
Liszt: Maybe.
Beethoven: I think he is way of mark here (Bach died in 1750, Beethoven was born in 1770).

I would say this is one of these senteces crafted to impress and be quoted later on, but on closer scrutiny turns out to be complete baseless. (By the way, I love Beethoven - I just don´t think he makes it possible to play Bach and Liszt).

Well there's the obvious way of looking at this sentence, which is that Beethoven made both Bach and Liszt possible.  This is obviously idiotic and not true.  However, if we consider the following two ideas:

- Bach is the foundation of piano playing
- Liszt is the summit (of piano playing)

Then perhaps it is true that Beethoven made the two ideas possible.  Where would the piano be without Beethoven, and thus would anyone be playing Bach on the piano today?  What about Liszt?  It is entirely conceivable that Liszt the pianist would not have existed were it not for Beethoven, and not just because of Czerny.

According to Busoni, Beethoven is what made it possible for there to be a foundation and summit of piano playing as he knew it, which is entirely plausible.

[bernhard]

Bernhard,

Your passages in the thread you linked made me in fact, wondering even more. To me they sound like only one side of the story at very least, if not highly opinionated, without any connection to the "real life".

Of course, I completely and totally agree with you.

Unfortunately, there is no other way:

i. Whatever we say, correct or incorrect, agreeable or disagreeable, balanced or unbalanced, informed or uninformed, logical or non-sensical is always going to be our opinion. (And I am looking forward to your highly opinionated comments myself )

ii. No one (despite their dellusions) has any connection to real life. First we have the big disconnecting barrier of our senses of perception, which do not give us access to "real life" but only model it imperfectly. Then we have the really huge barrier of language, which in turn models our sense perception. A metamodel so to speak. No wonder the original meaning of religion was "to reconnect". And we know what happened to that one...

As for Cortot, I have never met him in person, or even watch him perform live. My opinions on him were formed by

i. watching a few videos of him playing - mostly in old age. In technically easy pieces which could be played in spite of faulty technique (e.g. Schumann "The poet speaks") he was unsurpassed. In more difficult pieces with fast passages (e.g. "Chopin´s minute Waltz") he quickly fell apart - in spite of a clearly wonderful musical concept.

ii. Listening to his playing on CD (remastered) of very difficult repertory at a time when recording studios did not fiddle much with the recordings (that is, mistakes and all were there for all to see). Again, a woderful muscial concept shining through, but also the sense (perhaps dellusional and preconceived on my part) of laboured effort - plus all the wrong notes.

iii. Reading carefully (and trying many of his suggestions) not only through his editions of the Chopin, Schumann and Liszt as well as his "Rational Principles of Technique".

Surely this is imperfect and perhaps unfair, but one has to do with what one has. Which is why I look forward to you throwing light on it. 

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[m]

Surely this is imperfect and perhaps unfair, but one has to do with what one has. Which is why I look forward to you throwing light on it. 

Done:

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,19043.0.html

Best, M.

[dnephi]

Cortot was amazing.  I know of a professor at the university who uses Cortot preparatory exercises for many works, from Chopin to Beethoven. 

I find his edition of the Transcendental Etudes incredible.

Cheers!