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Topic: Appogiaturas in Mozart  (Read 9464 times)

Offline srdabney

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Appogiaturas in Mozart
on: January 11, 2004, 04:54:08 AM
I've been listening to a recording of Andreas Schiff playing all the Mozart Sonatas, and I have a pet peeve.

Appogiaturas in the classical period are *not* grace notes. You start the beat *on* the appogiatura, not on its principle second note. Anyone care to disagree with me?

Schiff does a pretty good job, 'grace notes' aside. In fact, he plays them correctly on some (K330) sonatas but not others (K279). Urgh!


Offline krenske

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Re: Appogiaturas in Mozart
Reply #1 on: January 11, 2004, 05:09:54 AM
well... i suspect that in mozart [and similar things in Bach and occasionally chopin?].. you have to do what YOU think sounds good. You can generally find an historical document somewhere to prove anything. I think one can apply one's intelligence here, and play what seems to fit best.. given that there's more than one pianist in the world, and there's no such thing as "musical jail".. except you might get kicked out of a competition for adding a trill in brahms.. although its been done. 8)
"Horowitz died so Krenske could live."

Offline bernhard

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Re: Appogiaturas in Mozart
Reply #2 on: January 11, 2004, 02:33:07 PM
Ornamentation is a minefield.

Originally (well up to late classical period) it was all improvised. This does not necessarily mean that the performer would do it on the spot (although it might well have been), he might rehearse exhaustively beforehand. But it means that it was the performer’s prerogative to add embellishments as he saw fit. In fact most baroque and renaissance music will not even notate ornaments, so that the performer chooses not only the form and manner of execution as well as where to place it. The three baroque composers who insisted on giving specific directions for ornamentation in their music were Telemann, Handel, and J. S. Bach. Bach was so particular that he pretty much defined all the rules and notation. His son C. P. E. Bach explained it all in his book “The true art of playing the keyboard”. Musicians were not amused. They deeply resented the intrusion of the composer on something they (rightly or wrongly) regarded as their area of expertise. Imagine coming up to a Jazz musician and giving him a score with precise directions for his improvisation. He would be flabbergasted

To make matters worse, ornament execution (and notation) changes from place to place and from style to style. So if you want to ornament with a minimum of authenticity you have to figure out French from Italian from German ornamentation (add specific areas within these countries as well), and renaissance from baroque from classical from romantic ornamentation.

Although very influential. C.P. E. Bach’s book was eventually supplemented by Hummel’s opinions on the subject. Unfortunately Hummel gave many rules that were in direct opposition to actual ornamentation practice. So from  the late classical period onwards there is quite a lot of confusion (e.g., Schumann versus Chopin use)

For a helpful first introduction to this subject try:

Ornamentation – A question and answer manual – by Valery Lloyd-Watts and Carole L. Bigler (Alfred)

However this is really too limited. It will give you straight and dogmatic answers, but the fact remains that although some ornament execution is clearly wrong, there are many that will be correct. A much better, more complete – and that will leave you less secure – is Robert Donnington’s “The interpretation of early music” (Faber). Unfortunately, this book only deals with music up to the Baroque, so it will be no good for Mozart. :(

Specifically for Mozart, I would suggest “Mozart and the Pianist” by Michael Davidson (Kahn and Averill). He suggests executions for all ornaments in all of Mozart’s solo piano works giving reasons for it. The only thing I dislike about this book is that it has no scores, so you have to figure out the ornament’s execution from a verbal (but accurate) description. And this can be a drag. >:(

Finally Frederick Neumann’s “Ornamentation in Baroque and post-baroque music” (Princeton) is arguably the most complete book on the subject. And the nice thing about it is that instead of giving dogmatic rules, he tries to give back the improvisatory character of ornamentation, so you have principles, but the end result can be quite varied.

I do not really go with “do what sounds good” school of thought, unless your hearing has been thoroughly educated in the style. After all, a lot of people think that Maksim sounds good!  :o

I hope this helps,
Bernhard.
The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side. (Hunter Thompson)

Offline srdabney

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Re: Appogiaturas in Mozart
Reply #3 on: January 11, 2004, 08:20:47 PM
As a rule, ornamentation is subjective. Not really my point.

Mozart appogiaturas are not quite ornamentation, but textual indications of how to play a phrase. Any phrase in that period was played as you would sing ... 'LA la'. Mozart used his appogiatura to indicate a 'la LA' phrase. Of course there are always exceptions ...

I guess I should give everyone the benifit of the doubt ... Artists who are skilled enough to perform for a living know the correct way to play Mozart, but *choose* not to, out of artistic (and in my opinion, bad) taste.

Horowitz was an awful Mozartean, IMHO. But not any less of a giant in other areas. In fact several performers that can hammer out a Liszt Sonata without difficulty play a Mozart sonata poorly ... go figure.
 


Offline krenske

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Re: Appogiaturas in Mozart
Reply #4 on: January 13, 2004, 09:50:32 PM
well...
maybe i should be more specific.
what i meant was.. get informed
GET REALLY INFORMED
then do what sounds good ;D
"Horowitz died so Krenske could live."

Offline krenske

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Re: Appogiaturas in Mozart
Reply #5 on: January 13, 2004, 09:51:16 PM
well...
maybe i should be more specific.
what i meant was.. get informed
GET REALLY INFORMED
then do what sounds good ;D
"Horowitz died so Krenske could live."
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