Bartok Suite Op.14

[japandude]

Hey guys,

Any tips for this suite?

Thanks.

[pianistimo]

i have to get the score out.  i have some good fingerings that work!  have you worked them out already?  bartok is so rhythmic and so full of hunbarian folktune-like violinish parts.  the beginning you hear a sort of scherzo (and yet the scherzo is to come - and this is in 2/4) of sorts.  not sure if that is what they would call it - perhaps a gypsy sort of speeding and slowing.  i have a start speed at 108=quarter moving to 120=quarter .  now if you know about wind and knots - you'll pick up speed appropriately when your sails are filled.  the tempo should be consistently 120 by measure 4.  and yet, at measure 5 we are still PIANO in dynamics.  the temptation is to play really loudly there - but it is really a dashing start.  it's like the violinist has been warmed up for some time.

i hear another little slowing at measure 12.  a contrast in where the piece is going.  automatic tempo at 13 and measure 20 the slowing is written in this time.  (pochissimo rit)

when you begin the piece, you can use 51 in the rh for the f and d.  when you get to the 'tune' you can use 421, 4, 321, 4, 5  for the first motif start.  make sure that 5 is staccato.  this will allow you to replace your hand position on the same note (e) with 3.  3,4,5,4,3.  this pattern continues for each pattern until the one right before measure 12.  that one (f, b-flat, d) as 521, 5, 421, 5,          3, 21, 3, 21

will write more - unless you already have the fingering and are looking for more shadings to the piece.  i'd say follow your heart - once you learn the piece.  it is a real 'have fun' piece.  sort of like czardas?  remember at the end of the first section you have a whole measure of rest.  this must be observed.  otherwise it will not be sounding correct.  even a slight breath after the measure is counted before beginning the next piece in the suite. 

[pianistimo]

get boosey and hawkes edition.

ok. at the beginning, with the lh, i think i used finger 3 on the staccatos all the way to the last one at the beginning of measure 5.  then, 1, 3, 15, 15, 2, 2, 15, 15, 3, 1, 3, 15, 15, 2, 2, 3, 2, 3, 2, 15, 15, 2, 2, 15, 15, 2, 3, 15, 15, 3, 4, 3, 2... then into the next section 1 (pedal), 1, 3, 5, 125, 125, 3, 1, 3, 5, 125, 125, 3, 1, 3, 5, 125, 125, 13, 14, 15, 15,

**ps i forgot to say that on the first page in measure 8 - you have a marked sustain over the e and so you hold it against the staccato g#.  circle all of these in the entire first dance.

[japandude]

hey pianistimo,

i love listening to this suite.  as you said, it is scherzo-y. 

thanks for the fingerings! 
i think i got the fingerings down for the 1st section, but thanks anyway.  i might change it if i like yours better.

do you have any good fingering for m72-76?  as of now, i am taking the 2 top notes with the RH( 5-2 5-2, etc), and the rest with the LH(1-4 2 1-3 2, etc).  it works out, but it's not super reliable when i play it up to speed.  do you have solutions for that passage?

for the 2nd movement, i'm having trouble with the passage from m73 and on.  i'm not totally sure where to place the grace notes.  and i don't know how to play the 4 note grace note in time on m80. 

for the 3rd mvnt, i think speed is my main problem. 

4th movement....memorization!

Thanks for your help.

[pianistimo]

at measure 72 i have all the notes in the trichord as rh notes.  (1-2-5)

but, with the lh i have this fingering from m. 72-76:
432343234323431454345431 5434543154315431   at measure 77 312342123

what is good about this fingering is that it gives the thumb the ability to play the sf's.

[pianistimo]

second dance (i counted measures completely through - so now i am adding 73 to 117.  guess that would be measure 190 in my score:

lh 432 1-5  is the majority of that!

rh 3332 51 x 3   on the fourth one:  i only have the Gb and Cb fingering as 5-1 then 3,2,53, 4,2,1 switch to lh 421 123 421  123 421 123 ... 

the e to Eb grace note to D 1-4-3

the way i played these was very fast and on the beat or just slightly before - but not much.  almost a sort of fast two note cluster with the accent on the main beat.  the triplets, etc. are very fast, too. 

[pianistimo]

the four note 'cluster' as i call it (at your measure 80) is simply a very fast gliss. of sorts.  just slide up to the note as if you were a violinist heading for the top note (32nd notes - so they are fast!) of the main beat.

[pianistimo]

the third dance sounds very middle eastern.  fingering is very important in many parts to keep it smooth and connected.  to start, i have:

lh 51321231 51321231 51213212 12323121 ... 

at my measure 298 in rh :  213 21 213 21  rests 213 213 213 213 2154213 215421 quarter rest

the rest of the fingering i can give you later if you want.  it does get complicated!  susan

[japandude]

1st movement: for m72-76, i don't think your fingering makes sense.  first it's quite impossible to go 4-3-2 in the opposite direction.  do you mean 2-3-4? even for m77  the 2-3-4 action is quite a twist.  are you referring to the right passage?  btw i have the boosey and hawkes edition(i forgot to mention that in my previous post)

2nd movement: do you use LH 1-2-3-4 for the 4 note cluster?

3rd  movement: can you give me the fingering for the first unison 8th note passage?

i appreciate your help, thanks a lot!

[japandude]

1st movement: for m72-76, i don't think your fingering makes sense.  first it's quite impossible to go 4-3-2 in the opposite direction.  do you mean 2-3-4? even for m77  the 2-3-4 action is quite a twist.  are you referring to the right passage?  btw i have the boosey and hawkes edition(i forgot to mention that in my previous post)

2nd movement: do you use LH 1-2-3-4 for the 4 note cluster?

3rd  movement: can you give me the fingering for the first unison 8th note passage?

i appreciate your help, thanks a lot!

[pianistimo]

the passage is played by switching hands.  the lh is taking the trichords and the rh is taking the 43234 part.  the switch is at measure 51.

basically, at measure 51 you have the rh B natural, F#, and C natural -with 5,2,1 - but you continue downward to the B natural with the right hand and hold it using 2-5 (finger switch).  then you are set up to play 4215, 4215-1, 3421, 3421342134213421235 and then on the e natural 3-5 (finger holds and switches)  after all the ties- repeat. 

measure 61 :  5-1 (on E) 2134212134213421342134213134323432343234314543454315434543154315431312342123

[pianistimo]

2nd movement - measure  197, yes  i have lh 1234 ending on 5 (at C).

3rd movement - unison passage at measure 314 - lh =54321212 (space between measures, ok) 12321234 54321212 13232343 12321234 54321212 13234134 34323432 34323431 23431212 12321212 12321212 12323123 51...

for the rh - i forgot what i played. i think it was 123 then thumbs together.  whatever works out i guess.  i'm pretty sure i consistently played thumbs together on the A's (2nd beat).  crossing over the fourth finger for the G in the rh.

[japandude]

thanks, i think i got it.

how did you speed the 3rd movement up in a comfortable, reliable way?
maybe heightening your arms possibly? 

[pianistimo]

at the piu mosso - put the rh above the lh.  use 543 (left hand) for the cluster of c e-flat and e-natural and then 2 1 2 on the single g a g.  for the octave f#'s use your rh above the lh. use the same fingering 5 bars later excepting have the lh above the rh octaves.  (fingering probably helps speed here)

as far as what i remember, the whole first couple of pages is even basically and boasts of a middle eastern type of flair.  perhaps as you cresc. you get just a wee bit faster - but then back to tempo.  but, at measure 335 you have these marked accents on the second beat.  my teacher has marked full pedal for the entire second beat.  all the way down.  the fingering for it is 51, 4, 31, 21... (scribbling out the idea of 21, 21 at the end). 

at measure 372 you have some thirds that are slurred.  i used 52, 31 in the rh, then next measure (373) 52,41,52,31, 52,41, 31, 42, 52, 31 42, 21, 42  and finally NOW you have that poco a poco accel to the first tempo again.

at measure 382 in the rh (in bass clef - upper stave) i have the fingering as 213, 213, 213, 213, 2154213... 2154213...

at measure 398 12454214 21323124 12454214 21323124 1

[pianistimo]

do you mean the speed in the last four measures? 

i guess for all the crescendo parts and the repeated sudden accents - i tried to gradually speed up.  sort of unnoticeably incrementally.  then, you have the sudden ritardando on the last part after the attacca (which seems to be the tied D which is held to the end with pedal (sost?)  i forgot what i did there. 

[pianistimo]

the last dance is tricky.  i'll give you more fingering if you want.  one thing i have marked in the fourth measure is the inclusion  of the e in the rh chord on beat three.  just hit the middle and both keys will go down.  don't forget in measure six that the A-flat carries over to the last beat of that measure (25) and then your thumb takes the G whilst 45454 fingers work.

[japandude]

ok, i'm confused.  you might have confused the question.

i want to know how you gradually sped up to tempo. 

i.e., did you just simply use a metronome and go notch by notch?

any "special exercises" you used to make the 3rd movement move smoothly and excitingly?

i'm sorry i have made you write all this.

i really appreciate your help, pianistimo!!!

[pianistimo]

i didn't gradually speed up, really.  i just kind of pretend i'm playing it on violin - and occasionally the middle group of notes with go slightly faster - but for the most part - i try to play the lh pretty evenly.  even the rh doesn't have to be filled with rubato.  i sort of do this dance between the rh and lh and the sensuousness of the 'smoothness' of the left hand is just slight speeding and slowing - therefore what i do in the right hand sort of tops it off.  unless there are some markings indicating slowing or speeding - and then it's more dramatic.

somehow this piece reminds me of a very exotic dancer or a snake charmer.  you can hear the smoothness and evenness - under and over which the rhythms are added.  the tension builds gradually and releases sometimes suddenly in bartok - but, other times releases gradually back the other way.  a lot of kinetic stuff.  if you watch kinetic things in motion - it probably helps.  or a dancer.  they do not make sudden movements - but each movement builds upon itself.  if they end with twirling, it's going to be fast.