How long does it take to learn a piece well?

[discturtle]

Hey guys,

(I'm sure this has been asked already, but I can't find it anywhere!)

How long on average does a good pianist take to learn a fairly advanced piece? I'm just starting to play in chamber groups and I'm not sure if I'm an unreasonably slow learner. The first movement (20 pgs) of the Brahms Klavier trio in C major took me about six weeks to get up to tempo and expressive.

I just started working today on Brahms' sonata in e minor for piano and cello (whole piece is 20 pages). My cellist wants to start practicing in a week. I'm not a very good sight reader (especially of Brahms' rhythms!) but seeing the piece for the first time today I was able to play one hand alone about 3/4 tempo.

I'm also learning Adagio and Allegro by Schumann and Debussy's Nocturne and Scherzo, to give you an idea of the kind of pieces I'm refering to.

What do you guys think is a reasonable amount of time to learn this kind of music?

[jakev2.0]

How long is a piece of string?

[discturtle]

I was just curious what people thought was reasonable...

[jpianoflorida]

How long is a piece of string?

I like that answer! basically there is no answer....how many hours a day are you practicing, how many days a week? how many pages? see there are too many variables so unfortunately there really isn't an answer ....................

jay

[invictious]

Forever

You never learn a piece well, you never will.

Look at Cziffra, horowitz, Hamelin, Ashkenazy, Li Yundi et cetc

They even admit they don't learn the piece well.

Don't learn the piece, don't bother, go kill yourself, there is no goal in life.

[pianowolfi]

Hey guys,

(I'm sure this has been asked already, but I can't find it anywhere!)

How long on average does a good pianist take to learn a fairly advanced piece? I'm just starting to play in chamber groups and I'm not sure if I'm an unreasonably slow learner. The first movement (20 pgs) of the Brahms Klavier trio in C major took me about six weeks to get up to tempo and expressive.

I think that's pretty good. I've learned the first Mvt. of the Brahms violin sonata g-major in about 2 weeks, but not up to performance level. And I practised it for 4-5 hours daily in one of the two weeks

I just started working today on Brahms' sonata in e minor for piano and cello (whole piece is 20 pages). My cellist wants to start practicing in a week. I'm not a very good sight reader (especially of Brahms' rhythms!) but seeing the piece for the first time today I was able to play one hand alone about 3/4 tempo.

This Mvt. is easier to learn than other comparable Brahms pieces, at least that's my experience. It's fun to play. But i would feel comfortable if I had three months for pieces like that. They need to settle down and mature.

I'm also learning Adagio and Allegro by Schumann and Debussy's Nocturne and Scherzo, to give you an idea of the kind of pieces I'm refering to.

I haven't played these so i can't tell you more about them. Don't be discouraged by the other posts. Of course you will be never perfect. Sure you can't say how long a piece of string is. But you need to be also realistic, when you plan your concert schedule. You can't tell your cellist: oh I don't know how long it will take me to learn this peace. Call me again next year/century/life/ maybe then. That is ridiculous. I would do the first rehearsals even before you have learnt everything, because you need to try out how the piece is, how your partner plays it and so on. Often and often I got panic because it took me a lot of time to learn something until the first rehearsal and then found out that i practised way too fast or st like that.

Hope this helps

[invictious]

Ok, this is something that will help.

I have played the Brahms Cello sonata in E minor, it's quite an advanced piece for the cello, and for the piano it can be quite tricky.

it's tricky, but not all that difficult, as seeing that my accompanist and me learnt it in 5 hours, the whole thing.

Now you are going to accompany an tricky and advanced piece, so I would say about a few weeks of working together

[discturtle]

thanks guys - that's more of the info I was looking for. I should have titled the thread "how long is a reasonable amount of time to take to learn a piece!"

peace to all- zach

[lostinidlewonder]

What is important is that you can measure how long it will take you to learn a piece. If the time it takes to get the piece up to scratch is immesurable then the piece is too difficult and it could take x units of time to get it up to scratch.

I think it takes many years before you can say you play a piece well, the piece has aged with you, you have played it countless times, you know it in an out, you can practically play it in the dark. I think it is easy to fake a piece, play it with full concerntration on expression, your fingers, very tiresome, it is like playing for examinations where you have to learn music in quick time, and it is prim and proper only through excessive focus.

Total freedom while you play, is that playing a piece well? Being able to play without thinking of your notes and mearly being an observer like everyone else. So what does it mean to really play a piece well? Just so that it sound beautiful, or just if your hands can do it all without effort, or both? What is beautiful, what is without effort for you?

[mike_lang]

I have friends who have learned Paganinoff, or Vine Sonata in a week.  I have others who take months for a Chopin etude.  It depends on you, but I can say from my recent experience that there are certain things that expedite the process:

-Performance (frequent performance)
-Analysis
-Concentration (part of this is not overpracticing)
-HS practice

For the chamber music, you must practice very slowly, and of course carefully - you do not want to get any bad habits from premature speed.  Of course, speed will have to come when you rehearse with the cellist, but not too early.  I also recommend playing through the cello part, or the violin and cello parts of the trio - it all facilitates learning the piece.

Best,
Michael